American Civil Liberties Union

yes, sounds like the innocent until proven guilty moto has gone away, it seems just as pointless as the South Dakota 24/7 program. Funny thing is... 1950's it was all about anti communist.. well with all the... "New laws"..and Acts.. "The Patriot Act".. WE THE PEOPLE sure don't mean a whole lot anymore

What's worse is, "they", whoever they are, want drug testing to trump hunger. On a human level, that's inhumane.

But here's what's so great!

The ACLU is back! In the house!

I'm a latecomer to actually joining the ACLU, but my heart and my head has been with you guys for a long time.

This is almost as good as Obama.

Not quite, but definitely "almost".

What the Hell is this???Who is making money on this drug testing contract? People with drug problems need to eat. It's an illness. What about pot? That would be a joke. What about alcohol? Shouldn't we be randomly drug testing all these bankers for getting federal assistance too then? Flood these jerks with calls and emails.

Not only does this proposed law violate one's ability to be "secure" in one's person, it also criminalizes a person's need for public assistance, the assumption being that if one needs assistance, one is 'probably' using (or going to use)illegal drugs. I believe assumption of guilt due to an extraneous situation is also violation of "due process" requirements. Would the legislators stand for a requirement they themselves submit to random drug testing on the basis of their status as 'public servants'? I think not.

States will obviously make applicants pay the cost of drug testing (they almost always do), which means that some people will now be TOO POOR to apply for welfare. Nice.

As a poor kid being raised by a single Mother fighting cancer(11 surgeries in 5 years!) I had to face enough discrimination and humiliation(separate lunch line for free lunch etc)

I'm now a Highly skilled Engineer who pays more in taxes in a year than the entire amount spent by the government on food stamps during my childhood years.

Sorry, to break the stereotype of the stupid lazy drug addict welfare recipient.

Save us from legislation based on bias and assumption.

I had no idea someone other than myself came up with this idea. I had written Gov. Rod Blagojevich in 2007. I told him that my idea was to test everyone on public aid for drugs. I had good reason. My husband's family and my neighbors are selling their link cards for drugs. If you don't have anything to hide, then it really shouldn't matter. I'm on foodstamps and won't mind it at all. It will save America money in the long run.

Not only is it un constitutional and uncompassionate,it will make many more homeless and hungry drug addicts. AND more drug dealers, 'case ya gotta live somehow. Even threat of overdose and death and jail does not stop people doing drugs. Why would losing benefits be any different?

No job without a clean drug test, no medical treatment if you pee dirty, no food, no money. Pretty much excludes a lot of folks from society all together. So, if you're going to exclude folks completely, you should then leave them alone to do as they wish.

Anyhow, I don't understand how a STATE can impose such rules for a FEDERAL program? Can the state tell the feds to butt out? If so, then why can't those states that voted to decriminalize pot tell the feds to butt out as well?

I know for a fact that if they are dumb enough to pass this mess, an awful lot of people will just go UNDERGROUND, thus paying no more into income taxes and doing all cash dealing under the table. Just the thing to help fix the economy, eh? Just as smart as worrying about Barbie...

Will WV Ever come out of the dark?Along with it"s Backward approach regarding drug testing thier food stamp recipents.They now want to place a dollar perdose tax on methadone treatment!The easiest one to victumize is the victum!

I hare to sound a bit harsh, but Lisa:

"If you don’t have anything to hide, then it really shouldn’t matter."

That statement has no relevance to any issue of civil rights or privacy matters in a free country. The slippery slopes are dangerously steep there, and it's hand in hand with government passing laws we have to prove we don't need, rather than they prove the necessity of. The bad behaviour of your family members seems to have skewed your objectivity, and while I see your logic and respect your personal experience, it still doesn't mean this law wouldn't make a lot of honest people go hungry.

Everyone except Lisa is correct. This drug testing food stamp receivers will hurt children and people who right now have no means of buying food without government assistance. Trust me, I'm certain that a lot of those people don't even want the government's food stamps. They want the ability to buy their own food with the sweat of their own brow from working a job. The point if their a drug user or not is completely irrelevant. Everyone has to eat and by taking food out of the hands of people that need it is a sign that this country whether its under a democrat or republican is heading in the wrong direction.

I don't know, on one hand this measure could be effective, and those found positive could be sent to rehab instead. On the other hand you have a point--it's counter productive indeed.

- Imee

What constitutional right does a person have to free food? I have the right to get up, get myself and my kids ready for the day where I go to work, they got school, I'm subject to random drug tests and my children provide a urine specimen as per the school policy so they can participate in extra curricular athletics. After about 3.5 hours of work my labor has paid my taxes for the day and the remaining 4.5 hours of earnings is mine to spend on my home ( property tax ), clothing (sales tax), gasoline (highway tax), tolls (to and from work). Then I get home and check my kids homework, cut the lawn, fix a leaky sink and help my wife with chores around the house. We go grocery shopping and spend more money on taxable items. We come home, get the kids ready for the next day, say good night, turn out the lights ( which we pay high rates and taxes on) and go to bed.
Did anyone notice I didn't say that the kids were in the stret while me and my wife ( marriage penalty tax ) split a blunt, get a 5th of vodka, or light up the glass pipe?... I'm sick to my stomach with the way my hard earned taxes are stripped from me and redistributed to perpetualgenerations of unmotivated couch potatoes who represent ALL races and backgrounds. Enough is enough ! Power to the people...moreover, power to the people who contibute, not the parasites who feed off their oppressed, tax paying hosts ! Taking anything without first earning it is a DISGRACE and the least that someone who is a recipient can do who receives this help is to be bound by the same values and standards that we are. Shame on the enablers who coddle and identify with those that tear apart the moral fabric which was sewn to stand as a template for how we should live in a republic society. This country is doomed.

After working in property management for almost seventeen years I can tell you from firsthand experience that the welfare system is a grossly abused system. Abused in a number of ways but it is a fact that of the properties I was responsible for throughout the country there was always one constant without fail and that constant was drug and alcohol abuse. I would watch residents line up at the mailboxes with the mail carrier trying to do their job of delivering the mail and getting that mail into the right mailbox with the residents virtually "mobbing" the mail carrier to get their welfare checks. We finally had to post an armed security guard at the mailboxes on the days the assistance checks were being delivered so the mail carrier could do their job in getting the mail delivered.
As fast as they could retrieve their check out of the box they would head across the street to the local liquor store where the owner would cash their checks, for an exhorbant fee of course. Then they would turn around and spend what money they had left on beer, wine, liquor, cigarettes and lottery tickets. We would watch them come back across the street to the property passing right in front of the office door, where they owed rent from the past five months ($5= 5 months’ rent x $1 per month, the portion they were responsible for paying out of pocket). It wouldn't but just a few minutes before familiar vehicles would start arriving at the property of know drug dealers who were there making their "deliveries". You see, while they were standing around waiting at the mailboxes for their checks they would be calling their dealers on their cell phone and paging their dealers making arrangements for a "hookup" a little later because their checks had arrived. The most frustrating part of watching this monthly cycle was the blatant display of these people. They didn’t even try to hide or conceal their “business”. They would conduct business right out in the court yards and parking lots of the properties for everyone to see almost as if they were proud of what they were doing. As management of the properties witnessing this in addition to being frustrating because it was preventing us from being able to do our jobs effectively and efficiently we were also concerned for the safety and well being of the all the residents at these properties. As any law enforcement agency will tell you, the presence of drugs will increase the crime rate and tend to draw the criminal element thereby increasing the number of violent crimes. We saw rapes, murder, gun fights, car break ins, stolen cars excess property damage box inside and outside the residents units
The next step in this vicious and very discouraging cycle was watching this take place month after month knowing we would be sending out "Notice to Vacate" letters to these very same residents on the sixth of the month for non-payment of rent and of course, they wouldn't have any money left to pay their $1 for that month let alone delinquent rents from previous months.
In an attempt to reduce the problems at these properties we starting working very closely with the local law enforcement and was able to drastically reduce the drug traffic on these properties and subsequently as the drug traffic decreased so did the number of reported violent crime and property damage caused by these same people and their “guests”. We also started filing evictions for residents with delinquent rents even if it was only $1.00! Our corporate offices and property managers didn’t know what to make of this at first. “You want to spend $75 to file an eviction for $1 delinquent rents”, they would ask. Yes, because to not do so isn’t being consistent with our policies and procedures. The courts agreed with us. That helped clean up the delinquent rents issue as did convincing the owner of that convenience store, across the street at the one property, to stop cashing their benefits checks. Most of them opened checking accounts and was able to take advantage of their direct deposit programs thereby almost if not completely riding us of the “mob scene” issue at the mailboxes that occurred monthly at the first of each, for which the mail carrier was extremely thankful, to say the least!
Because of the hands on experience I received working for this company on this selection of properties I feel I am perfectly qualified to speak on this subject with a large degree of authority. As unpleasant as it was at times and at times almost unbearable, I do still consider this experience an opportunity because it afforded me the time it took to analyze the situation and with the assistance of colleagues we were able to find some viable solutions to, if nothing else, improve the situation. We by no means solved the problem completely but we were able to make a noticeable difference and we gauged this by the reduction of monthly expenses, increase in monthly rents, decrease in reported crime activity as reported by the local law enforcement and by the increase of good long term residents coming by our offices to thank us for coming to the rescue, if you will and making a difference and improving their living environment! Another aspect of this story is the fact that I was raised by a single mother of three children who also was depending on the welfare program for assistance until I was in the ninth grade when my mother, fortunately, met a good hard working man and they married which by design removed us from the long list of other recipients but prior to my mother being married, I watched her struggle saving every penny she could to keep a roof over our heads, clothes on our backs and food on the table. She would save those S&H and Gold Bond Stamps they used to give at the checkout at the grocery stores back then, so she would have a little something to give us each year for Christmas. It wasn’t easy for any of us. My mother worked very hard and long hours in factories to make a living until she was no longer physically able to do so and fortunately, the welfare program was there to help her provide for us when she was no longer able to do so. However and most importantly, there were never any illicit drugs or alcohol in our home. Fortunately, this wasn’t ever a distraction. Between these two life events and experiences, I believe and feel perfectly qualified to speak on this subject.
With that being said, I would like to add that the welfare program and the idea of what it was intended was a great idea. Helping those who are unable to help themselves due to physical or mental disability is the socially and morally right thing for any country to do for its citizens. There are many qualified and deserving people in our country that depend on “us” to help provide them with acceptable housing and assistance with providing food for their families each month who would other do without but there are many that abuse these programs in a variety of ways but I would have to say the number one problem is DRUGS and it is those individuals the question of drug testing is intended for not the qualified non offenders of drug abuse. You won’t hear them complaining about having to take a drug test because they know this isn’t a problem for them. It’s the offenders that know that couldn’t pass the drug tests who are going to be up in arms of having to do so. It isn’t an issue of the rest of the population doing or not using drugs. The rest of the population as you refer to them is not in line seeking and demanding state and/or federal assistance. It is those who make up “the rest of the population” who have two and three jobs trying to support their families that pay for the family receiving welfare benefits so I think we need to leave them alone. I believe they are doing their part already and have enough to worry about without you using them in your argument trying to convince us there is no difference between the welfare recipients and “the rest of the population.
I have read your articles making statements about the idea of drug testing not being reliable and that it’s costly or that doing so in unconstitutional. This is all nonsense and you know it! Drug testing is used throughout the country by the police division know as the “Pretrial” offices after someone has been arrested and charged with drug possession. Your statement that “most companies don’t do drug testing because it is too expense” is totally false and untrue. I don’t know of a company that doesn’t do pre-employment drug testing as well as mandatory drug testing in the event of a non-life threatening ting on the job injury or accident. Most companies even reserve the right to subject employees to drug testing in situations where the suspect an employee of abusing drugs or alcohol. You are right about one thing, drug testing is expensive but it is nowhere as costly as the number of dollars being paid out each month to individuals and families who don’t deserve them because their first priority, unfortunately is the purchase of illicit drugs with their benefit dollars BEFORE paying their bills, rents or food to feed them and their families. The welfare program is a necessary expense and we all know that. It is the ongoing abuse that is at question here nothing more and nothing less. So I say yes, welfare recipients should be tested for the use of illicit drugs and it should be mandatory that they seek help for a qualified professional drug treatment facility of their choice after their first positive drug test. Being allowed to receive benefits should be dependent on them starting and completing a qualified drug treatment program. If there is a second positive test result at any time during or after they are receiving treatment they should be disqualified from the welfare program indefinitely. Individuals expecting assistance from these programs need to know and understand the program is there for them if they need it as long as they qualify and remain qualified in order to receive benefits.

how about we give them a bunch of meth instead! your dumb. the piss test is a much needed thing. to many people that are using government help like food stamps would have plenty of money to buy food if they didn't spend it on meth. why should tax payers have to give these people food if they waste their money on other things like meth. i wish i could find the statistics on how many people on food stamps are meth or crack users. we are constantly poisoning our society with this free help. Don' you wonder how the cracked out parents have kids that are extremely over weight? its because our government doesn't give to shits about the people in our country. they poison us with high fructose corn syrup and the the fake additives and flavors that slowly kill the people. its all a form of population control just like the flu shots that they give people every year, and look how many people die from the regular flu each year. and the majority of the people dead got the flu shot. its called government planning on controlling to population.

I happen to believe in Welfare Reform which happened in 1996. In my opinion, rules were imposed on welfare programs because there was a concern about people not getting skills in order to become more employable. For TANF (cash assistance), recipients of the program have to complete work activities each month in order to receive their assistance. I believe Welfare Reform ties in closely to the Chinese proverb that states, “Give a man a fish and feed him for the day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life.” When recipients state they don’t want to “work” for their benefits without getting paid, the response should be, “You are getting paid; you are getting cash assistance, food stamps, and medical assistance.” I feel like the government should make the same requirements for Food Stamps as Cash Assistance. As a country, we need to teach people to become self-sufficient. We should not promote generational poverty; the cycle has to stop. The Federal Government is the employer of cash assistance and Food Stamp recipients. Human Services and Workforce Center workers are the supervisors. If recipients of any welfare program are instructed to treat their participation to welfare programs like employment, then maybe random drug testing is not such a bad thing. All Human Service workers have to submit to a drug test if they are asked to. They are expected to “maintain” at all times. Why should it be any different for anybody else? I see the point that children will suffer if somebody is turned away because they refuse a drug test or their drug test is “hot.” That’s not true though. Human Service workers are mandated reporters; they have to report suspicion of drug use. The kids will get help. I understand that some folks will avoid Human Services because of the possibility of drug testing. However, if they have children and that’s what everyone is worried about, sooner or later a call to Child Protective Services will be made. You can’t tell me that a “drug house” is never busted just because parents are not on government assistance. Sooner or later parents responsible of abuse and neglect of their children because of drug abuse WILL get caught. And...yes I know that parents that abuse drugs love their children. I do not doubt that one bit, but they are "hooked" and they do not know how to stop using drugs in order to become a better parent. You cannot parent your children effectively while abusing drugs...bottom line. It may not be right or wrong, but it is certainly something that runs through many taxpayers minds. There are many free substance abuse programs through Human Services. If folks have children, then there is help out there for those who have decided to abuse drugs. (Notice I didn’t say drugs and alcohol. Alcohol is a drug; there is no reason to separate it.) Anyhow, another saying that comes into my mind is, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.” You can give folks job searching tools while they are receiving food stamps and cash assistance, but you are unable to make them use the tools.