Prop. 8 Ruling a Blow to All Minorities
(Originally posted on the Washington Posts’s On Faith blog.)
Religious supporters of Proposition 8, the voter initiative that banned same-sex marriages in California, might feel good now that the state's Supreme Court has ruled that the measure can stand. But will those religious groups that are celebrating Prop. 8 today regret it later when they consider the precedent that's been set?
Prop. 8 has made it a lot easier in California for a simple majority of voters to strip away the rights of an unpopular minority. What happens when it's your time to be the unpopular minority?
History is unkind and too often repeats itself. Members of the Mormon Church, who were major supporters of Prop. 8, have ancestors who experienced some of the worst religious discrimination ever faced in the United States. In the mid-19th century they were driven by mobs from Illinois to Missouri and across the Wild West to Utah. It was wrong then to persecute Mormons for what they believed, just as it would be wrong now to try to force Mormons to accept members or marriages in their church they deem unworthy. There is freedom of religion in America for good reason. But that and other freedoms have been watered down in California, thanks to Prop. 8. The court now has less power to fulfill the purpose for which it was created: keep the tyranny of the majority from trampling the rights of the minority. Anyone can be a minority if enough people don't like the way you live, worship or think.
My mother is one of Jehovah's Witnesses, an unpopular religion that was persecuted in the U.S. and abroad. They faced mob violence in 40 states when refusing to salute the flag during World War II. In Germany, they were put in the concentration camps for refusing to give the Nazi salute. Like Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses vehemently oppose same-sex marriage on moral and Biblical grounds. Gays are not allowed to be Witnesses unless they live celibate and single lives. Members who insist on being in a same-sex relationship are shunned by the congregation. But none of the million Jehovah's Witnesses in the U.S. supported Prop. 8 because the religion mandates staying out of politics and culture wars.
Jehovah's Witnesses proselytize door-to-door advocating a religious point of view just as Mormons do. But the choice to accept or not ends at the front door for the Witnesses. They don't amend the constitution to force everyone to live their way. State laws are not needed to legitimize their moral views. Witnesses don't see the state as an enforcer of a moral code. That's the Bible's job, they say. If you want to be in God's Kingdom, simply live the code yourself — it's not the Witnesses' mission to enact laws to stop gays from marrying.
When Jehovah's Witnesses were persecuted they fought for their First Amendment rights at the U.S. Supreme Court a record 62 times, winning 50 cases. With each win, rights were expanded for everyone. The Witnesses know it's in their best interest that the rights apply to all, even for groups they disagree with. Now in California the opposite is happening.
Some religious organizations are celebrating a restriction of rights for a minority they disagree with — making themselves the future target of an equally discriminatory people's amendment. Because Prop. 8 diminished the court's protective role, there will be nothing they can do other than realize they should have been more careful about what they wished for.
May 26th, 2009 at 4:28pm
VERY well written. Thank you for reposting this article.
May 26th, 2009 at 4:38pm
Why is a religion practiced by some on the foundation of faith & not fact being pushed off as state law on ALL individuals? What happens in someone else's marriage (pluralism/divorce/adultery) doesn't change the validity of my own, why should gay marriage be any different? And why should the public masses get to decide (prop 8 during Fed election)the personal rights & freedoms of a minority group? That's how slavery lasted in this county as long as it did! GAY is not a choice or an experiment, its who a person is to the core.
May 26th, 2009 at 5:02pm
What right is stripped away. BTW, marriage is a biblical concept. What about all the non religious people who voted for prop 8. What part of by the people for the people should be ignored. To say that voters will live to regret the decision, is like saying don't look to your constitution and forget the laws, lets let our emotions rule. P.S. work on those personal problems.
May 26th, 2009 at 5:06pm
The people voted.
The people are being forgotten a lot lately.
Religions have always been persucted. The ACLU starting to sound like a conservative.
May 26th, 2009 at 5:10pm
I think the ACLU heard the voice of America and didnt like it so this is there way of making everyone look like the bad people except them. For once the the good people win!
May 26th, 2009 at 5:14pm
Prop 8 is a big blow to an extremely important minority in the USA. Of all the places for this to happen, in california...unthinkable. I thought they were the ones who set the bar. Who will we look up to now?
May 26th, 2009 at 9:30pm
A cogent argument, had any rights been stripped away. What Prop 8 did was block a minority imposition of an entirely new, never-before-seen "right" to same-sex marriage.
If gay rights activists can convince a majority of Americans to vote gay marriage into existence, fine. I don't care. But don't simply create a right out of thin air, and then whine when people "strip away" your imaginary right.
May 27th, 2009 at 1:02am
Excellent article.
if you want to be a homosexual, or have sex with Martian six legged whatevers, JWs do not care ... on the OUTSIDE of Jehovah's Witnesses.
We mind our own business.
No politics .. no way .. no how.
Tom.Rook@Technik-SA.US
May 27th, 2009 at 11:57am
hypocrisy! The ACLU is blind to the rights of every parent in America who want to raise their children with beliefs of sexual morality. Your efforts will not end with homosexual marriage. With your philosophy it should be alright for people to have sex with and marry their pets(dog cat monkey whatever). Please stop teaching my children that sexual behavior that hurts others is OK
May 28th, 2009 at 2:53am
I learn more information from this site
pearls
May 29th, 2009 at 9:35am
you are right on one thing, In America we are able to have freedom of religion that is one of the great things about American you can chose to serve OR not serve what ever God you chose. But what right should you have in trying to force those of us that Love the Lord Jesus Christ to worship him in confined areas? he has already been taken out of schools, look how that is working out for you are children are more violent then ever before killing raping and babies born without two parents to love and care for them. you think you are doing good by making everyone conform to your ideas of how this country should be run but they are your ideas which you are entitled to. but I to am entitled to mine. this country was founded on the belief in God and you can chose to not believe and have your own opinion on the matter but our constitution was designed with God in it. your attempt at gay marriage has failed on several attempts because God is still in control and everything is in his time. you may get your gay marriages to stand one day in the not far off future but I pray your heart will have a change before that happens as God is gracious in loving and slow to wrath but woo oh to him on who his wrath comes.
May 29th, 2009 at 10:17am
In a world that threatens to be torn apart by groups with increasingly polarized views, Jehovah's Witnesses show how co-existence is possible.
I was just about to attribute that thought to Joel Engardio, when I see that it is HE who wrote the post! Joel is the writer and director of Knocking, an award winning documentary film about the social contributions of Jehovah's Witnesses. It's an award winning film which he modestly does not plug, but he probably should.
www.knocking.org
May 29th, 2009 at 6:57pm
Prop 8 is a huge victory, way to go California!
First of all marriage is a covenant between husband, wife and God, this country was founded by men of God, if we accept one perverted group we have to accept them all such as pedophiles, triad marriages, beastyality and every other sick and twisted sexual behavior.
The anwer is move to a country that accepts that abomination such as Sweden, The United States one Nation under God is not changing for you and the majority should rule.
The sexual revolution, The Gay movement, abortion, all have contributed to the decay of our country, you guys support abortion, but torture the enemy to gain intel to save Americans lives is wrong in the eyes of the ACLU.
I am a proud member of the ACLJ, we fight for the family structure,we fight for the real rights of this Nation, and we support our troops and any Federal Agency that sacrifice their lives for this great Nation!
San Fransico was one of the most beautiful cities in the US once upon a time, now look at it, drug addicts spewed down every street, prostitution, look at the Castro District which is one of the great embarassments of the United States, that is what gay culture does, detoriates society!
May 30th, 2009 at 12:43am
By making this ruling, marriage itself is no longer immune to legislation, nor is any belief safe. By allowing the tyranny of the majority, by allowing the rights of any group, the beliefs and ideals of any group to be trumped by any others...
We've failed the greatest test of the constitutional republic which we were given as a gift. We are not and never were to be a democracy. We were a limited republic, with the powers and restrictions even on the powers of the people itself.
Jun 1st, 2009 at 2:44pm
Get a life. This country is based on "IN GOD WE TRUST!" Don't take away my rights that were given to me before you were even born. Praying was one of the reasons we left England....the right to pray or not to pray - our decision. To go after the government for letting FEDERAL SOLDIERS to pray on MY DIME! I think we need a government bail out just for your program......GET REAL!
Go find the real injustices..... Having to be a member to get into a country club! Now there is a problem!
Why not start your program mission statements with defending our rights that the Declaration of Independence gave us and go after those who are trying to take them away! Like our right to own a gun! Or try defending our rights to pray! You don't want to pray don't. CHOICE.
I'm affended that you are not representing MY rights! SHAME ON YOU!
Jun 1st, 2009 at 5:27pm
I am sorry to disagree, but our country is based on our Constitution, not in god we trust.
May I ask which of your rights the ACLU is trying to eliminate?
The hoax about not allowing soldiers (actually Marines) to pray has been debunked thoroughly and often. Check
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/marines.asp
for details.
The ACLU has often defended individual's right to pray when the government is trying to restrict it. They also take on the government when its representatives try to force individuals into prayer.
Jun 3rd, 2009 at 12:20am
nAME ONE
Jun 5th, 2009 at 7:46am
prop 8 is good; homosexuality is a sin one day you will find out, believe it or not! There is a judgment coming very very soon
Jun 8th, 2009 at 3:54pm
i am a christian it urkes me when the aclu comes into a state or a county and sues to have any religous moment removed you all threaten to sue if not removed and the only reason you all threaten to sue is so you can get money you all are the reason our country is in a decay i am glad voters stood up in california and said that a marriage is between 1 man and 1 women abortion is murder anyway you look at it we all are judged for what we do here on earth if you all were to die have u thoguht about where you would spend eternity america it is time we need to stand up to the aclu and say enough is enough if they want to sue lets fight them they get mad when we pray in school or at a ballgame lets stand up to them it is our right to pray in school or at a ballgame or anywhere in public to the aclu it is all the money lets stand up to them when they threaten lets not back down yes pray for the aclu but let our voices be heard
Jun 9th, 2009 at 5:14pm
The ACLU will fight for your right to pray only if your praying to Allah.
Jun 23rd, 2009 at 2:59pm
I find it absolutely ridiculous that anyone should be SO offended that a minority groups "right" has been voted on and shot down by a majority group. Are you people insane?
THAT is what the foundation of our Country is built on!
"Let's put it to a vote.." Giving the People the information and then allowing them to make up their minds based on that information is how this country has Always been run, and Thank God for that!
What do you think happens in a Jury case? A group of people hear the facts, make a determination/decision based on those facts, and either someone hangs or they don't...Majority vote wins. A trial decided upon by ones peers.
The same concept applies when choosing the most important individual in this country. Majority votes, majority rules.
It is the way that our forfathers agreed this country should be run.
Those in protest over the outcome are a bunch of hypocrites.
How dare this decision be left up to the people, they say...OH, but let the government, one time, say. "You know what..I think we're just going to go ahead let congress choose our next president."
Majority votes for a reason. I want nothing more than Gay marriage to be tossed out the window and never, ever brought up again, YET, if the entire country voted that it was lawful, and the practice became accepted, I wouldn't open my mouth one more time about it, because the majority voted. That's what makes this country so much more wonderful than so many others. People have the power..quit being hypocritical.
Jun 24th, 2009 at 12:18pm
I agree with the Majority rules. For once, California did something right. My daughter, because she was told it was ok, tried bisexuallity, and she cries because it haunts her dreams. She's now 21 and this happened during her Highschool years. I pay my taxes and I want prayer back in schools. Seperate the religions and non-religious for a 1/2 hr. I could not afford Christian school for my kids after 5th grade, so they had to go to Public and Public schools are evil, children are mean and cruel. They have no morals or ethics anymore. Because, no matter how much Parents try to teach their children the Christian way, the Public schools tell them anyway is okay, and most Children will just look at their parents as old fashioned and shun them. Eventually, that child that was taught the Christian values at home will come back to them, but not before scaring their hearts and minds. NO Gay marriages! I was born in this Country when it was Great, don't take that away from us!!!!
Jun 26th, 2009 at 1:18pm
In response to "Worried for my Childres" which I think is supposed to be "children" but your daughter experimented (which is normal for children) with another woman and she cries because it haunts her dreams? Haha wow, sounds like she has more issues than just fooling around with a few girls.
And in response to a lot of the other people who made a comment on here and are "real Americans" judging by your comment name. Come on, it makes me worried for the well being of our society when you can even think that homosexuals should not have the same rights that all heterosexual couples have. That is hate, you are saying that you are better than them and should be subject to more rights than them. It is sick, you can claim that it is because "god" said so...blah blah blah gag!
I am atheist and I have friends of all religions. You are imposing on my "religious/spiritual beliefs" (whatever you want to call them) that people are born gay and should be able to marry the person they love. So you need to be tolerant of my religious freedoms. We don't have to just be tolerant of yours.
What if Christians one day become a minority? You are saying then that since the majority voted and said "no more marriage for heterosexual christians" that we should uphold that? It is called "tyranny of the majority." A huge issue in the democratic system. We need to work as a society to not oppress the minority. And it is happening right now to our homosexual friends. It needs to stop.
<3
Jul 8th, 2009 at 2:53pm
Another way to look at marriage equality may be through the prism of the Establishment Clause of the Constitution.
It would seem that, for the government to withhold recognition from sacramental marriages blessed by the ministers, say of the Metropolitan Community Churches (who have according to their website, blessed some 6000 marriages of same sex couples), while granting recognition to sacramental marriages blessed by Roman Catholic priests or ministers of other Christian denominations, would constitute disfavoring one religion over another, Such disfavor, and alternately such a favoring of other religions, would be unconstitutional, if this argument has merit.
Jul 16th, 2009 at 5:15am
No one needs Prop 8 to jump in the sack with your same gender and give each other AIDs and every other STD imaginable. What disgusting perverts that try to recruit children to their filthy gay life style. Face it, without conversion to fagisum gays would be dead in a generation and the earth would cleaned of this abomination.
Gays must convert the children or their cause is totally lost, they would go extinct and rightly so.
Don
Jul 30th, 2009 at 11:35pm
WOW, I read a lot of comments complaining about praying in public schools. A VERY large portion of my property taxes support these schools. Yet these people say that I can't have the same tax benefits as they have even though I'm paying thru the nose for it. To B. Dad Gum, Tax benefits IS ONLY ONE of the rights stripped away by Prop 8. I think then the IRS should declare that tax benefits for joint filing of married couples be abolished, just to be fair....
The really scary part is that people like Don (July 16th) even have the right to vote. Obviously you've never met or talked to a gay person. Consequently you are sadly mistaken about it. Homosexuality has been in the world throughout history... FOREVER. So your comment doesn't hold water, bub, and gays will not go extinct, deal with it.
It's refreshing to see some people who have thought out their comments rationally before posting, and very alarming to see others spewing stupidity.
For those who say homosexuality is a sin, let he who is WITHOUT sin cast the first stone. Hipocrites! My experience is that those who believe in the bible PICK and CHOOSE what part they want to have faith in and which parts they follow, yes I'm gay and yes I did read the bible so I SEE your hypocrisy in action everyday.
BTW excellent post roald (June 1st, 2009).
Aug 2nd, 2009 at 1:02am
Your assertion that Prop 8 increases the majority's ability to trample on the rights of the minority is absurd. Prop 8 only defined marriage. It did not change the legal mechanisms of how laws are passed or upheld/cast down by the courts. Legal processes were not changed by Prop 8; therefore, it did not have this type of effect.
Aug 13th, 2009 at 11:07pm
I read through the Constitution, and I can't find one instance where marriage of any sort is a "right". I personally don't care a wit about what anyone does in private, so this whole gay "issue" makes no diffrence to me. What I do find disgusting, is that the ACLU is so bent out of shape because black people (who came out in droves to vote for barack obozo) and exersized their rights to weigh in on an issue that defeated the intolerant agenda of a leftist organization.
WWWHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Suck it up (pardon the pun) and drive on. When the ACLU finally gets A CLUE, and supports REAL RIGHTS, like public religious celebrations, gun ownership and open (and concealed) carry, I might give a **** about rights they invent for their pet minorities.
Aug 17th, 2009 at 12:11pm
ACLU is insane they have no clue about a lot of crap. They say free speech (unless its Christians speaking) but only for their agenda. Prop 8 was one of the best props that ever passed. Now if we could come up with one to ban the aclu from our lives we might have something.
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