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Fox Wildly Distorts ACLU Religious Liberty Case(Cross-posted to Daily Kos and Firedoglake.) Florida's Santa Rosa County School District has a long and unrepentant history of unconstitutionally sponsoring prayers, proselytizing students, and generally promoting particular religious beliefs throughout district schools. In August 2008, no longer able to bear this infringement on their liberties, two students at Pace High School sued the district with the assistance of the ACLU. Many in the community reacted in an uproar: the student plaintiffs were vilified in the media and threatened with rape and death, among other efforts to intimidate them, and district officials vowed to fight back. Pace High Principal H. Frank Lay was perhaps the most vocal, declaring during a fiery sermon at an off-campus church service (MP3): "This country is founded on Judeo-Christian principles, there is no doubt about that. . . . I walk up and down the halls everyday and I see tons of kids that aren't saved. They have hollow eyes. They are void of a spirit. They need Jesus." But as the case proceeded and overwhelming evidence of a pervasive pattern of egregious constitutional violations continued to mount, it became clear that the district's activities were indefensible. How could the defendants explain away the Pace High Teacher Handbook, which, on page four, requires school personnel to "embrace every opportunity to inculcate, by precept and example, the practice of every Christian virtue"? How could they justify school officials' regularly leading or directing students in prayer at extracurricular and athletic events, arranging for prayer during graduation ceremonies, proselytizing students during and outside of class, and sponsoring religious baccalaureate services? How could they defend one teacher's display of a waist-high white cross in her classroom? They could not, and to the school board's credit, they (including Lay, a named defendant) admitted liability for their unlawful practices in December 2008, and agreed that the court should enter a preliminary injunction pending a final consent order to be worked out by the parties. However, though every district employee received a copy of the court's preliminary injunction ordering school officials to immediately cease their longstanding and pervasive practice of "[p]romoting, advancing, aiding, facilitating, endorsing, or causing religious prayers or devotionals during school-sponsored events," several decided to flout the court's authority and directed that school-sponsored prayers take place regardless. After learning of these violations, the court ordered two of those employees — Lay and Pace High Athletic Director Robert Earl Freeman — to face criminal contempt proceedings next month. During the September 17 hearing, Lay and Freeman will have to answer for their roles in promoting prayer during a school luncheon to dedicate a new field house. (Another school employee will face a separate civil contempt complaint tomorrow for similarly violating the same court order). If held in criminal contempt, the pair could be assessed a fine and/or or assigned up to six months in jail. Fox News, not surprisingly, has had a field day with the field house prayer, devoting no fewer than five on-air segments to the contempt proceedings in the last week alone, all of which have focused exclusively on the fact that Lay and Freeman could be subject to prison time if found in criminal contempt of court. Consistent with Fox's modus operandi,each new segment ratcheted up the hysteria with Bill O'Reilly declaring that the judge (who, O'Reilly neglects to mention, was appointed by former President George W. Bush) is "probably an atheist" and Mike Huckabee warning ominously on his show last weekend to "be careful when you pray, Big Brother is watching." But as LiberalViewer so artfully points out in this YouTube video breaking down these Fox segments, when you take a closer look at the actual facts here (which Fox largely distorts or ignores), the upcoming contempt proceedings are wholly unremarkable:
Lay and Freeman openly violated a federal court order (something judges do not take kindly to) and now they must answer to the judge — facing the same consequences that may be imposed on any person subject to a criminal contempt proceeding in any case. There is nothing unusual about that. Indeed, even if they are found in contempt, it is unlikely that the court will order jail time here; no one — including the ACLU — has argued that prison would be an appropriate sanction in this particular proceeding. Undeterred by these facts, Fox News nevertheless seems more intent on sensationalizing the case than reporting the truth. If the contempt proceedings against Lay and Freeman are noteworthy at all, it is for an entirely different reason than the controversy ginned up by Fox News and its ilk: in the irony of all ironies, Lay and Freeman's September 17 court hearing is slated to take place on "Constitution and Citizenship Day," an annual commemoration of the signing of the Constitution, which federal law requires public schools to observe with relevant educational programming. The confluence of these two events sets the stage for a perfect teachable moment for Santa Rosa students, as there are a number of valuable civics lessons that can be drawn from this case, including, among others, the necessity of respect for the rule of law and the authority of the judicial system; and the vital role that the Constitution plays in protecting those of minority faiths from governmental intrusion and coercion. Let's just hope that Santa Rosa's civics teachers, and indeed, teachers across the country, can see through the Fox News hype to recognize and impart these crucial lessons to their students, who, after all, will be our future lawmakers, attorneys, and judges. Otherwise, the Constitution doesn't have a prayer. Check out our Myths & Facts page to learn more about this case.
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67 Responses to "Fox Wildly Distorts ACLU Religious Liberty Case" |
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Aug 19th, 2009 at 3:31pm
As one of the few Catholics in an all Mormon school, I understand what these kids went through. My only gripe is that the ACLU has got to call it both ways. Case in point: in California there was an athiest teacher who ridiculed and mocked Christian students in his class for 17 years (his name escapes me) until a young Christian man finally stood up to him. Now what I find strange is there was not a peep from your organization, why? As far as I know, the teacher is still employed there. Whats fair for believers is also fair for non-believers.
Aug 19th, 2009 at 6:03pm
What the F is wrong with you people. I pray, that's right pray, that you people get what you deserve. Matter of fact, I pray cursing upon you since you are the enemy of the one true God. Thank God, that there is a freedom of speech in our country & that Fox News is representing that truth. A Cluck of Lunatics Unite that's what ACLU represents.
Aug 20th, 2009 at 1:47am
I don't trust any news owned by private companies or ones that have a scetchy history, at best.
I trust ACLU because they have a good standing record of common sense and action. Though I may not agree with some of their ideas (still waiting for that to happen) I will say that I believe what they're doing is right.
Aug 20th, 2009 at 7:30am
You people are the Nazis!!!
Aug 20th, 2009 at 7:34am
You people are unbelievable. Maybe this organization had a worthwhile purpose when it was started but now it seems intent on destroying the very things our country stands for, free speech and freedom of religion. You seem to spend all your time defending terrorists' rights and attacking everyday Americans. Shame on you!
Aug 20th, 2009 at 11:04am
brave new films is a JOKE!
Aug 20th, 2009 at 12:45pm
You people should be scared as heck of your final desitination, someday all tougues will confess and all knees will bow that Jesus is Lord.
As far as Fox news goes. I have never seen any other news station that shows all sides like Fox does. God Bless Fox
Aug 20th, 2009 at 12:47pm
You bunch of cynical crazy Jackasses, try to stop us praying in West by God Virginia, crazy Jackasses..
God bless you crazy Jackasses...
When it comes to Judgement Day forever is a right smart piece of time.
Aug 20th, 2009 at 1:37pm
Thank you for understanding the difference between the establishment clause and the free expression clause of the First Amendment
Aug 20th, 2009 at 1:42pm
So if an atheist goes to school and has to 'endure' a prayer, what constitutional rights are being violated? I can understand if the principle and teachers were trying to convert people--but a prayer violates someone's 1st amendment right? Wow, how far has our country fallen...
Aug 20th, 2009 at 6:10pm
Santa Rosa School district is still breaking all the rules - they seem to be using other schools to keep the abuse going -
http://creativehalls.com/mobile-pensacola-gulf-breeze/?p=90
Aug 20th, 2009 at 10:05pm
I grew up Christian, known pagans, been around a whole lot of people in my brief fourty-seven years. Many years my closest friends were wiccans. But I've come full circle back to God and his son Jesus. You see, the world would be a better place if for nothing else but live by his word. But the good news is; he is the source of life.
So many children are without love for life as it is. To know Jesus is a far better alternative to drugs and street life.
The ACLU should be defenders of good, decent, productives life rather than any and all walks of even the most destructive and vile. When anything goes, everything dies.
Aug 20th, 2009 at 10:10pm
I have recently aske the aclu to handle a case for me. that effect the ecomomic abilites of myself and thousand of others. But when i look at the caes they hanle it make me wonder. Do I want them to represent me? So after i got a email telling about this case i decided to blog about it and this is what i return to all thise people that recieved the same emial i did .
I would say a prayer does wonders but how about the freedom of speech I would urge everyone the got this email to go to the aclu's web site and tell them how you feel about them enfringing upon your freedom of religion post it on their blog and over run their system. maybe it will work, maybe it won't! but when ever the freedoms of one person is expanded it takes the freedom from the others they look at issues with discrimination and create more. they take issues of choice of illegal or immoral issues and turn them into rights. Take a look around!
Aug 20th, 2009 at 10:19pm
Steve, did the young man go to the ACLU as did the students in Florida? Did the teacher try to forbid the students from praying?
Susan, I presume you are a Christian, so I will ask you to read Steve's post and then walk a mile in the shoes of a non-Christian in that school.
Aug 20th, 2009 at 10:39pm
Your organization has gone too far.
Your doing the very thing you claim to be against, depriving people of their constitutional rights.
Your movement is sinceless.
Aug 21st, 2009 at 1:23am
I am quite shocked at reading this article. 10 years ago I was a student at Pace High School. Frank Lay was my principal and Robert Freedom was my athletic director. Both of these men set the standard not just for Pace High School, Santa Rosa County, or even the State of Florida, but on a much bigger level. They set the bar very high for the entire country and more importantly the students they taught. The compassion that each of these men shows towards their job and the student’s lives they impact have no ends. As anyone who is well versed in history will tell you, one of the foundations of this great country was the Christian religion. I’m sure everyone has seen a nickel; which on the heads up side reads, “In God We Trust” in capital letters. I don’t follow the ACLU too closely, but to my knowledge, I have yet to hear a case against the U.S. Mint declaring the monies that are used everyday by several countries including our own are unconstitutional.
Regardless of my own religion, I feel that these charges are absurd and unnecessary. Being raised in what is commonly known as the “Bible Belt,” I understand that prayer is an everyday happening whether one believes in a one true god or not. Everyone that is subject to a prayer has the option to not bow their head and keep their eyes open and simply ignore the next few words to be said. This is not a complex or difficult task, but rather a menial and simple one. A prayer or display of a cross in no way shape or form presses a religion upon another person, but rather subjects them to the beliefs of those that choose to display the various forms of religion. This is not a violation of anyone’s rights whatsoever!
As I just stated, no one is forcing religion upon anyone else. One of the qualities that make our country one of the greatest to ever exist is the many freedoms that we as American’s are afforded by the Bill of Rights. Amendment 1 of the Bill of Rights gives citizens of the United States of America freedom of religion. It does not state that displaying or practicing a particular religion is illegal or unacceptable, but rather we as U.S. citizens are given the freedom to practice whatever religion we choose. At the risk of sounding redundant, I will say again that the charges brought against these two outstanding men of society are absurd and altogether incongruous.
I do agree that FOX has stretched the truth to make the ACLU sound crazy, but I do not think that such actions were necessary as the headlines have already caused them to seem foolish. In closing, I would like to wish my former educators Frank Lay and Robert Freeman the best of luck and want them to know that we are all pulling for them.
Aug 21st, 2009 at 9:29am
No one in the ACLU has gone to a school that has taught them how to read. The Constitution states we have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. And the double standard is disgusting. The ACLU never attacks Muslims that want to infringe on our rights, only Christians, showing their double standard. It is time to put this organization out of business, and several groups are working on doing just that.
Aug 21st, 2009 at 9:53am
This is an example of ACLU striving to place a barrier to rights and liberties! This case exposes ACLU's true agenda is NOT about liberties in America, as there are so many cases of freedom and liberty abuse that ACLU has deliberately turned their back on. America sees you, ACLU, as a THREAT to our freedoms and liberties!
ACLU: GO AWAY! Why do you go out of your way to force America to defend their freedoms?!
Aug 21st, 2009 at 10:03am
Who gave you the right to decide where we can pray, or when we can say a blessing? You will never be able to remove God from the American people. Have you read this "One nation under God" it's on our government buildings, why do you think our Fore-Fathers did this? Just maybe they knew something obviously, and you don't.
Aug 21st, 2009 at 12:47pm
The American Civil Liberties Union seems to be the only group of people who are willing to stand up for our freedom today.
The people who claim that the ACLU is attacking religious freedom is dead wrong. The ACLU is saying that the government should not interfere with the religious beliefs of anyone.
The greatest irony of all is that the man who accuses the ACLU of being a bunch of Nazis, is in fact, himself a Nazi. The Nazis believed in the combination of church and state, and were intolerant of anyone who did not share certain religious views. That is why they muerdered Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, atheists and others who did not agree with their religious beliefs. Furthrmore, that is exactly what this nut who made this accusation in advocating, the use of government to promote his religious views instead of somebody else's. Personally, I like my freedom to practice whatever religion I wish, and would hope that all those fascists who oppose the ACLU would go to Iran so they can see what happens whem the government promotes religion.
Thank god for the ACLU.
Aug 21st, 2009 at 1:11pm
Its evident that both Fox News and the ACLU distort and manipulate the truth to drive their points. In my opinion this should never have reached the public's eyes as a point of conflict let alone have received all the hype driven by both groups. It's silly that a court case was ever brought about by these students as no one was forcing them to pray or adopt particular beliefs, that public groups are attacking Christianity, and that idiocy drives the distortion of these issues.
Aug 21st, 2009 at 1:26pm
Once again the fanatics are proving that fundementalism is a pox on any real spirituality.Students have the right to go to school without having Jesus shoved down their throats and any so called educator that doesn't respect that does deseve to be held in contempt.
Aug 21st, 2009 at 11:29pm
Roald....to your credit I do not believe the said student enlisted the help of the ACLU. The point I'm trying to make is with how much vigor this organization would have pursued it. Please let me explain....from what I see, if a christian educator so much as has a Bible on his/her desk, that would be grounds to launch an ACLU lawsuit, but from what I see, humanistic/athiestic educators are given far more leeway. Case in point: this particular teacher in California was only chastised for one statement in all the 17 years of of his career. I believe a Christian would not be granted such liberties. For the record, if the dicussion of religion pops up on my bus, I immediately put it to a stop. I work with a lot of LDS children, but I also work with athiest, humanist, wiccans, born-again christians, jews, ect. and I love each and every one of them, regardless of who they are and what they stand for, and would freely give my life to protect theirs.
Aug 25th, 2009 at 9:43am
What a sad state of affairs in our country - the ACLU has an agenda that is contrary to the idealogy that our country was founded upon. ACLU wastes money and time in our courts pushing their liberal and ungodly agenda. Too bad that common sense eludes most government organizations - and this one too - It was good to see that at least one judge got it right and ruled against the ACLU - what a disgusting organization -
Aug 25th, 2009 at 5:09pm
Christianity has made this country great! Moral decline is behind most of the problems you see unfolding in the news! Evolution is a religion and a hoax! Please look at the miracle of the Bible (4k years, several languages & host of characters with miraculous consistancy and prophecy)the eye witness testimony of Jesus followers and the writings by Rome at the time, the changed lives of millions and the endless good work/love of Christians! Jesus died/rose to redeem you and I and it takes much more faith to believe in evolution than it does Christianity and that's a fact if you're intellectually honest!! Thanks!
Aug 26th, 2009 at 3:37pm
Re: Cora C Day
When Francis Bellamy (a Baptist minister, and also a Christian Socialist for that matter) wrote the pledge of allegiance in 1892, the words "under God" were nowhere to be found in it. They weren't officially added to the pledge until 1954, just two years before "In God We Trust" was adopted as the new national motto by law (P.L. 84-140) in 1956, largely replacing "E Pluribus Unum" which had been the de facto motto put into place by those forefathers you were talking about by act in 1782. "In God we Trust" never appeared on a coin until 1864, and never appeared on any paper currency until 1957. I suspect you'd have a difficult time finding ANY pre-Civil War government buildings with "One Nation Under God" on them.
While you are verifying what I just told you (don't take my word for it, PLEASE look it up for yourself), you might also want to look into some of the reasons why Ben Franklin's call for prayer during the Constitutional Convention was dismissed. Those forefather's apparently had some ideas about when and where prayer was appropriate, and I'm fairly certain they would apply that same reasoning to school prayer.
A good primer about what happens when organized religion gets a bit too involved in the political arena would be to study the roots of the formation of the the Church of England (The Anglican Church); I'm sure it was somewhat fresh in our founder's minds. It was mostly certainly fresh in the minds of those arriving to our country after fleeing the persecutions that ultimately resulted from it. It seems highly doubtful that it was their intent to put into place the steps for it to start happening all over again.
Aug 26th, 2009 at 3:45pm
Oh, and Steve in #1:
I sympathize with your story ...a good High School friend of mine was the only Jew in a mostly all-Protestant School.
"Case in point: in California there was an athiest teacher who ridiculed and mocked Christian students in his class for 17 years (his name escapes me) until a young Christian man finally stood up to him."
I'll ask if you would mind posting a reputable link on that one; if your story is the one I'm thinking of, it's merely an urban legend. ("God couldn't come, so he sent me instead" is QUITE fictional, although it DOES sound good at least)
Aug 26th, 2009 at 6:45pm
It makes me sick to my stomach to see such ignorant responses. Anyone who has actually looked at the facts of this case can plainly see that the school district employees were clearly in the wrong.
In response to Steve: The ACLU *does* do it both ways. Have you not noticed the other actions taken by the ACLU to stop religious persecution or to make available religious doctrines and practices where they are being prohibited? Please do your homework before making judgments like that.
In response to Buster: How very Christian of you to hate. How pretentious of you to rail against the institution that protects your first amendment right to free speech that you thank God for and not our forefathers. Please take your hate-mongering elsewhere, unless you have something intelligent to add to the discussion.
In response to Rob: No one is trying to stop anyone from praying. Quite the contrary, they are protecting the right to pray for *all religions* not just one. Also, the issue here is not prayer, it's promoting a specific religion at a school, which is unconstitutional and illegal. Have whatever religion you want... in your own time and in your own way. Don't you dare violate my right to have one different from you especially in a school.
In response to Chris: Because there is no place for religion in school especially to be endorsed by the faculty and staff. The very concept of freedom of religion is that you may attend any church that you like and learn all about whatever religion you chose. The separation of church and state (state = public school) is where the line is drawn. If you would like prayer in school, then go to a religious school and not a public state-run one.
In response to Dale: Holy crap man, please learn how to use the English language and punctuation before trying to make a point. It makes you look like an uneducated simpleton and weakens any argument you might have been trying to put forth... if I could read it.
In response to Alabama Outlaw!: A very well put and concise argument! You are indeed correct that the US currency has religious connotations and that the US mint is part of the US Department of the Treasury. Secondly, this country was indeed founded on the christian religion, however even they were wise enough to realize that all religions are valid and the American people should have to freedom to venerate any of them that they wish, including none at all. Thirdly, prayer *is* an everyday occurrence that all are free to engage in unless specifically prohibited by the Constitution of the United States of America, which happens to be the case here.
In response to Cora C. Day: Who gave them the right to decide where the people can pray or when they can say a blessing? No one. That is the court's domain; the domain of law. The ACLU is responsible for bringing illegal actions to light and making sure that the laws are followed and enforced so that all may know freedom. Please check into their other cases (specifically involving religious freedom) if you think they are trying to remove religion from the people.
In response to Steve JJ: You have your opinion, I have mine. It is my opinion that religions in general have kept this nations' people small-minded and in constant conflict. Second, Evolution by it's base in science and it's very definition are not a religion, but in fact a theory of science. As far as the bible goes, there have been many great works of fiction written over the years, none so far reaching as the bible. Its' validity is based entirely in the realm of faith and has absolutely no basis in observable or reproducible fact. I for one think science and evolution present far more logical arguments than 'someone said it thousands of years ago with no basis in reality or fact, so it must be true'.
In response to the rest of you that graced us here with your ignorance: Come to us with a compelling argument and perhaps good grammar, and we may concede to the validity of your statements. Failing that, please leave your hate in your hearts and not upon these pages. Thank you.
Aug 27th, 2009 at 12:27pm
Steve, you appear to be making an assumption of what the ACLU would or would not. I don't know and neither do you. We don't know that one teacher simply having a Bible on her/his desk would launch a lawsuit. The ACLU reports appear to be against far more egregious situations.
Further, given the preponderance of Christians in the US and that Christianity is a proselytizing religion, the ACLU has a target rich environment.
I know virtually nothing about the situation in California that you mentioned and would want to know what the teacher said. If the comments are as severe as you say, the teacher was wrong and the school should have acted to stop it.
From how you describe how you interact with your changes, you are doing the right thing and hope that others would follow your example.
Aug 28th, 2009 at 12:25pm
This case is so sad. Kids are smart- if they don't want Jesus, they won't believe in him. Let people pray for the kids without being charged with a crime.
Aug 29th, 2009 at 5:26am
I fail to see how leading a prayer is unconstitutional. The ACLU is referring to the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...". In this case, Congress has made no law. As long as the prayer is not mandatory, then the Constitution has not been violated. But the issue with Frank Lay is that, acting as part of the school district he violated the injunction and consent agreement. The school district should have appealed the injunction. On a side note the ACLU is a contradiction. They fight to restrict the rights of millions not so much in the name of liberty, but more for the sake of pluralism and political correctness. Our society has become intolerant in the name of tolerance. Truths that were universally recognized as such, a generation or two ago, are now questioned. Unfortunately it has now become cliche to say that America was/is a Christian nation. But the truth of the statement is irrefutable. I will pray for justice to be done. May I add that as a Pace High Alumnus, and a Christian, the fact that Pace H.S. is predominantly Christian is well known. Pace has consistently been one of the best academic schools in the state. They have also had excellent extracurricular and athletics programs for years. Is there maybe a connection between the Christian beliefs of the faculty/students and the schools' performance? There is.
Aug 29th, 2009 at 9:06am
Before we had the freedom of speech and the freedom to religion, granted us by the Constitution, men fought against a government system that did not allow such practices. We now revere the rebellion of those men. We call them brave and wise. I can see how one day, we might revere people such as these educators who believe, truly and deep down in their souls, that Christianity is truth and that all people will and should enter into this truth one day. Also, just as a side note, our public education system began because citizens wanted everyone to be able to read the Bible.
It seems to me that if such a large majority of people are trying every day to practice and promote Christianity, might it not be true? Why is it that we have to impose evolution (which *is* a faith of non-religion) into the curriculum in order to promote it, yet we have to work so hard to keep Christianity quiet?
As an educator, I feel that I am forced to teach beliefs that I do not share, namely the theory of evolution. Maybe I should file a lawsuit with the ACLU!
Aug 30th, 2009 at 3:07am
the very nature of this problem fulfills the prophecy of the end times... the Son of Man is coming very soon, look to the heavens... repent....hell is real
Aug 30th, 2009 at 9:33pm
Guy grey.....I went to google and typed in "atheist teacher california" and the teacher in question is a man by the name of Jim Corbett. You may want to go to Youtube and type that name and see what comes up. I do know that it was NOT an urban legend. Roald.....thanks for your response. I literally had to break up fights because of religious arguments. So that....and the discussion of sports rivalries, are off limits on my bus!
Aug 31st, 2009 at 9:50pm
As the ACLU managed to take God out of our schools and even the Pledge of Allegiance, any student can tell you that the moral condition of schools nationwide are rapidly declining. As a student, I can't even talk to friends about religion because teachers are afraid of losing their jobs and put an end to it immediately. Does that violate my freedom of speech and freedom of religion enough for ACLU to protect me from itself? As for taking the Pledge of Allegiance out... this is a sick perversion of what our rights are meant to be. We live in America, what reasonable excuse could there possibly be to not pledge our allegiance to the greatest flag on this earth when we benefit from everything it represents? I'm disgusted that this organization has "American" in its name. It embodies everything that America is not.
Sep 2nd, 2009 at 4:07pm
Steven, the argument is whether to take "under god" out of the pledge. That phrase was recently added and in response to the red-phobia that was sweeping the land. God, if it exists, belongs in our homes and our churches and, perhaps, in our interactions with like-minded individuals. Laws are for the rest. Remember that advice about rending unto Caesar?
Even generation talks about the moral decline of the next, yet we seem to survive generation after generation and even improve ourselves.
The fear you mention is because many are unable or unwilling to distinguish between praying or talking about religion and representatives of the State forcing their religious beliefs on others. A simple way to tell right from wrong is to walk a mile.
Sep 2nd, 2009 at 5:49pm
I am encouraged by the responses I have found here. On the first page the ACLU quotes that we have the right to freedom of religion, then they take that away by saying it is wrong to pray in public. I for one am not ashamed by God and I am not ashamed of the Bible. For those of the ACLU that are, I would not want to witness you when you come face to face with Him. America deserves better than this.
Sep 10th, 2009 at 9:48am
I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December. I don't agree with Darwin, but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his Theory of Evolution.
Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game. So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire Book of Acts. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game.
"But it's a Christian prayer," some will argue.
Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country founded on Christian principles. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect--somebody chanting Hare Krishna?
If I went to a football game in Jerusalem , I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer. If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad, I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.
If I went to a ping pong match in China, I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha. And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit.
When in Rome .....
But what about the atheists? Is another argument.
What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer!
Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations.
Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray before we go to sleep. Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying.
God, help us.
And if that last sentence offends you, well, just sue me.
The silent majority has been silent too long. It's time we tell that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard that the vast majority doesn't care what they want. It is time that the Majority Rules! It's time we tell them, You don't have to pray; you don't have to say the Pledge of Allegiance; you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right; but you are no longer going to take our rights away. MOST of us are begining to fight this NONSENCE, and we WILL WIN!
God bless us one and all ... Especially those who denounce Him , God bless America, despite all her faults. She is still the greatest nation of all. God bless our service men who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God.
Sep 10th, 2009 at 11:26am
I applaud the ACLU for this stance! Why can't the ones who want to pray, pray on their own time, in the privacy of their home, car, etc.? My children attended the schools in SRC in the 80's. I wanted to be a part of the PTA but was quite upset (and yes I am a Christian) when the meeting always included an "out loud" prayer. My prayers have always been private, intimate and special between God and me. I requested a moment of silence versus a prayer but that was not honored. I tried to time my attendance to avoid the prayer time but as the schedule was not strict that did not work either. As a result I ended up avoiding any commitment or work for the PTA which I regret. I should have been more insistent. I respect the students who stood up for their rights especially with the bias they have had to endure in this locality, which is not just limited to NW Florida. In the olden days, 50's and 60's, I was forced to memorize bible verses for extra credit in the public schools that I attended in Tennessee. That made a definite impression on me and not the kind that a Christian would strive for! Are these Christian educators so inadequate that they have to force their views on others, not only children? I believe that living your life in an honorable, compassionate and respectful manner is the best way to influence others, including students.
Sep 10th, 2009 at 10:44pm
wright, the ACLU does not say it is wrong to pray in public. The Constitution says it is wrong to force your religious beliefs on others. A good test is to imagine the payer is a representative of the state and is leading a prayer to Allah. If you are offended, you should be offended if the prayer is led by a Christian.
Zeff, it is an exceptional child indeed who is able to overcome brainwashing that begins the day they are born.
Megan, you are correct about the fight needed to gain our freedom of speech and of religion. Our founders were determined not to repeat the mistake of a state religion. Yet, here you are defending exactly that. The only difference is that you are a follower of the religion and are forcing it on others. A one time most of the people in this world believed the world is flat. Enough said.
You cannot equivocate science and faith. Science, evolution, is supported by science. It describes what we can observe. When observation demonstrates a theory is wrong, it is changed. Religion is the opposite; it is based on faith and its truth is based on people believing it. You have institutions where you can share your views with like-minded and curious others. Why must you force it on the rest of us? I truly hope that you not a science teacher.
Sep 15th, 2009 at 10:46am
ACLU, you will never take my faith!!!! Does anyone from your organization even read our comments posted on these blogs? I pray that God convicts your hearts and lives.
Sep 16th, 2009 at 1:19pm
Heather Weaver, you are a Great American. If students and citizens want to pray, pray somewhere else besides a school event. I have children in the Santa Rosa County, Florida School System. I think their school currently has a "D" rating on the FCAT. Why doesn't the school system do well on what we pay it to do? Best Wishes!
Sep 16th, 2009 at 1:29pm
I once asked a fellow resident, who lives in Santa Rosa County,why the Pace Assembly of God did not start their own Christian School and the reply was "They already have one, it is called Pace High School."
Sep 16th, 2009 at 8:46pm
All of this debate simply comes down to how we interpret the First Amendment of the Constitution, so let’s take a look at what it says:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
All this is saying, quite simply, is that the government cannot make a law to establish religion. That is, the government cannot declare that this nation will establish one particular religion as a national religion. Establishing a national religion was the practice of pretty much every other nation at the time (i.e. The Church of England). This is by no means an argument that the government should be free from religion. If this were the case, then why were our Founding Fathers so open about their religious faith? Still today, the U.S. Senate has a chaplain and each morning our lawmakers begin their day with a public prayer. I am a Christian minister who was hired by the U.S. Government to perform or provide for the First Amendment rights of our Soldiers. There have been chaplains in the Army since the earliest days of our military. Modern revisionists are fighting to do away with these long standing practices because of a recent (mis)interpretation of the very simple language of our First Amendment. It is unfortunate that these revisionists have been largely successful in their attempt to remove religion from our public school system. This tragic development corresponds directly to an increase in teenage pregnancy and other social problems. (See www.wallbuilders.com/).
If a school principle wants to start ballgames with a prayer or talk openly about his faith, good for him. This country could use a lot more of what he has to offer, as long as it is done in a respectful manner. I live and work in an environment where there are people of every religious background you could imagine, and I pray at all kinds of official events. People understand that I am a Christian minister and that I am going to pray as such. When the Muslim chaplain prays, everyone understands that he is going to pray as a Muslim. Let’s quit using “religious freedom” as a back door way of creating religious intolerance. Americans have a Constitutional right to freely practice their religion, and I believe it also says something about freedom of speech, does it not?
Chaplain (Major) Jeff Spangler
Student, Command and General Staff College,U.S. Army Combined Arms Center, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas
“The views expressed in this blog are those of the author and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government.”
Sep 17th, 2009 at 8:53am
This is the best the ACLU can do..Go after people for saying a blessing before a meal?.Guess I wont be inviting any of them to my house for dinner anytime soon..With all the problems our country and the state of Fla. has right now this one rates about a minus 10 on my (WTF were they thinking) meter.
What's the ACLU got against god anyway?
Sep 17th, 2009 at 10:04am
I think the entire issue requires one to accept a certain interpretation of the First Amendment
Sep 17th, 2009 at 1:05pm
I think the ACLU should take a few days, and actually read our constitution. Freedom of Religion. "The more society removes God from its works, the quicker it will fail!"
Sep 17th, 2009 at 3:27pm
Put these zealots in jail!! they broke the law! As for the idiots protecting religion i would expect no less...The religious have protected child molesters and condoned racism, homophobia, genderism, murder and other acts that would make jeffrey dahmer raise an eyebrow! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ACLU!!!!!
Sep 17th, 2009 at 6:24pm
Joe I'm sorry you have issues, but seems they run really deep in your twisted mind. I think your right, drug dealing, drive bys teen pregnancies, this is where your time should be focused. Zealots.. I bet you had to look that big wprd up. Good thing someone is praying for you, because you need it.
Sep 17th, 2009 at 6:26pm
The ACLU claims to protect our rights as American citizens, however they are bringing suit against two men for blessing a meal. This was a luncheon given by the booster club. The booster club is a private club that consists of parents, alumni, community business leaders, and members of the community that donate their money and time to support the sports program. While the luncheon was held at the school it was not sponsored or paid for by the school.
As for Joe Singer, I will pray for you and hopefully you will find your way to the Lord and realize that only he can save you. I hope that you don't realize this too late.