Because freedom can't protect itself
I would like to ask a question! Has someone researched and written about what I suspect is a strong link between the use of torture and physical interrogation techniques, and an underlying philosophy of racism, religious or cultural bigotry, and revenge lust on the part of those in power in the U.S.?
Rebecca Procter, Santa Fe, NM
Don't blame it all on Bush, I didn't vote for him, but little by little as most of us are not informed well of anything we sit back and try to do good. Those who take advantage of this for financial and other type gains take away hard fought for freedom and abuse our constitution by neglect. Education, community education is the only thing that will ever make any thing different. Yet when we leave some people out because they are not politically correct for the times, or they are a hindrance to us we lose, I have been left out of lots of things simply for seeing the corruptions when I finally did and trying to stand up against them. Now I am not sure what to do to make anything much better, it seems like it is all slowly being eroded, taken away, and disrespected, what does freedom really mean now?
And where did my comment go? There should be no censorship here unless you are filtering out simply garbage and sometimes some people do that simply write garbage for no good reason, most don't. Still, censorship is actually taking away our first amendment rights in the first place isn't it?
Rebecca, I am actually going through this situation. I retired 5 months ago from an automobile factory in wis. They put me through a living hell and still going through what they put me through, it gets even uglier, but I can't say much right now, I believe it was because I am mexican and all the others were mostly white, when you get supervisors and union members to go along with the dirty things they did to me, something is horribly wrong with our country! I do have 2 government agencies involved now and I hope to finally sue them.
Federal government engaged in medical experiments without the knowledge or consent of that person. The fact that these atrocities in the name of american people, permanetly dishoners them, making it impossible for a nation with a large a heart as america, to accept a form of government that is, at it's root, heartless.
I think freedom has lost all of its meaning to most Americans. They babble on about how import freedom is to them yet do NOTHING positive to insure that freedom still rings in America.
Fortunately, I'm old and I won't see the final downfall of what was once a great nation.
I have no hope at all, just look at most of Kentucky and W. Virginia.
Torture is WRONG and anyone who thinks otherwise is not someone I'd even want to talk to. After, trying to show them the error of their ways. How can one argue with someone who thinks torture is OK?
I'm going to do my utmost to avoid those people as they won't listen to me anyway..
Torture is a tool used by weak men and women who have no idea what it is like to have to don the uniform and fight for this country. The military and the FBI know that torture does not work. But the discussion should not be bogged down with that issue. It doesn't matter if it works or not. It is illegal and immoral. If we do not hold the people responsible for ordering these illegal tactics, we will never recover our moral standing as the moral beacon for the world. Finally, I have one question, WWJT? Who would Jesus torture?
Hi Everyone -
We've recently finished a low-budget feature film on torture designed to engage people who would normally turn away from a frank discussion of torture.
Our website is: thetorturermovie.com
David Sheldon, Film Financial Services,
Rich Lerner, Conspiracy Films,
PH – USA- 303-807-8459
Graham Green, GHG Productions
WEBSITE (with trailer): thetorturer.com
TITLE: "THE TORTURER a.k.a Force Drift"
PLOT: “A ‘Military Interrogator’ returns from Iraq with Acute Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder”
DESCRIPTOR: “SAW” meets “FARENHEIT 9-11”
You’re dragged from your house to a secret prison.
You have no right to a lawyer or a fair and speedy trial.
You don’t know when — or if — you will ever be released.
You don’t know who your captor is, if he's legitimate, or what tools he will use to get what he wants.
The sound of the man screaming in a distant cell is terrifying,
but not nearly as terrifying as the sound of the electric drill that
No one can hear your cries for help.
Nothing you say seems to satisfy him.
Nothing he says seems to make sense.
You tell him you don’t know the answers to his questions. He says you’re lying. He says he has proof, evidence, photographs, Internet records,
wiretaps, bags of uranium oxide.
You're hooded, frozen, stripped, probed and sexually humiliated. The deeper he goes the more you doubt our own sanity, and his. You know what you need to do to stop him, but you won’t. You're confused. Only one thing is certain: In A Post 9-11 World No One Can Hear You Scream.
TAGLINE: “In A Post 9-11 World No One Can Hear You Scream”
QUOTES (On Script):
"I got sucked right in… . It's like a Stephen King/John Grisham short story. SCARY!!! I'm a little spooked now."
CNN anchor Christina Parks
“It’s the perfect festival film”
Chad Coles, Asst. Producer, “SAW” 1,2&3
“I appreciate what you are doing.”
Anthony Lagouranis, author of “Fear Up Harsh: An Army Interrogator's Dark Journey Through Iraq”
Legendary Nichelle Nichols (Lt. Uhura – Star Trek) stars in this sharp new pic along with rising star powerhouse Andrew Walker (Steel Toes, with David Strathairn), and chic Persian newbie Mahsa Masoudi (Revenge of the Nerds 2006). Sophia Choi, former CNN anchor, is also featured.
“The Torturer a.k.a. Force Drift” is a bleeding-edge psycho-thriller from writer/director Graham H Green that dives headfirst into an adrenaline-fueled world of psycho-killers, secret prisons, terrorists, and political intrigue.
This smart and gripping tale of torture and twisted sex follows a ‘military contractor’ who returns from Iraq pursued by a terrifying secret that an alluring, ambitious doctor ultimately reveals.
This will take decades of determined action to overcome. It is possible that America's reputation has been irreparably harmed by the casual use of torture after decades of practice in which the U.S. -- though often at war, and not always for decent reasons -- avoided its use. The avoidance of torture was one way America gained respect from victims and torturers alike around the world. This issue cannot be allowed to fade from the public eye and must be carried forward by the ACLU and citizens from all walks of life.
The problem with torture is that everyone has paid too much attention to it and has condemned same in the eyes of our enemies. They (our enemies) along with the lawyers (also, our enemies) representing the NO side of torture WIN. Torture, just as Reward does not always give a desired result. Although there are time when the need for each is needed. If I stole your child and have threatened to do harm to them, you say would not do bodily harm to me to find out the answers you needed to rescue or protect them, LIAR.
WWJD ? we don't really know what Jesus would do, do we? As all we know was written by mortal mans hands and had to be approved by the powers in charge at that time. As with all religions, they are negotiated at best, and interpreted by people that conducted tortuous affairs like the Spanish Inquisition.
Is there a God ? Yes, look around, God has a sense of humor too.
The ACLU our savior? Hmm let's see they are the people behind bringing this all to light, savior to our enemies maybe, but I would bet big money or at least your life that our terrorist friends from over yonder will know that our torture is but a game and will play that card accordingly. It's just like the illegal listening in on our phone calls,,,, I don't have anything to hide and I have NOT heard of anyone being arrested unjustly from one of these wire taps, HAS ANYONE HEARD OF ANYONE BEING UNJUSTLY LOCKED UP FORM ONE OF "THESE BAD MR. BUSH WIRE TAPS"?
This is all a case of the left hand moving around so we don't noticed what the right hand is doing Bull-Shit, how many more illegals entered into OUR country today ? Most of our politicians are guilty of selling us out, they play their games and we loose. Republican and Democrats alike, if they are moving their lips and put occupation politician on a W-2 they are lying.
RE: "How do we regain the integrity of a nation governed by the rule of law after we’ve stepped into this breach?"
The Declaration of Independence tells us how: "...whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it..."
Power, once taken, is never given back willingly. It's time for another Revolution!
The Catholic Church knows Water Boarding quite well, as that was one of there favorite methods of torture doing the Spanish Inquisition, They should ask the Pope what he thought about it for the Catholic Church invented it. And George Bush, A born again Christian? Enforced it in 2003-2008, Why haven't they Impeached that Beast!
We all over look one very important aspect of torture - those who torture LIKE to torture! If you marvel at how they continue to use it as "interrogation" when it is well known torture-derived confessions are questionalable at best, remember, also to torture one must be different. It isn't unlike understanding the joy of a sadistic murderer. It becomes an obsession. Can Congressmen and a President become fascinated with torture itself? I think so.
I think the problem we have to face here is that for those in power who are advocating torture, they do think it works.
Now stay with me here. They don't think it ellicitates better info, not at all. That's not why they are torturing. These people are trying to inflame hostilities between the US & Arabs. They know that the torture breeds hostility & that is what they want, IMO. Welcome to 21st Century America.
Paul in KY
When those that have been tortured, such as Senator McCain, end up compromising that position, we have to ask ourselves "is it even possible for the United States extricate itself from this morass"?.
I fear that there is an insanity that has gripped our nation - after all, when Republican candidates go on the air to argue about who would torture the most and who would make Gitmo larger, this IS insanity.
It is no longer about truth, justice, or law. It is about pure, naked, power to do whatever egregious harm we want to another human being. What possible information could detainees have that would be useful after seven years?
The United States was founded on the Constitution. It horrifies me and others to see our Government blithely ignore our laws and it is my hope that those involved in any torture are prosecuted.
This is the ONLY way this country can heal.
There is a disturbing narrative being allowed to grow across the web. That narrative is that neither Bush or anyone else will ever be brought to justice, or made to face a court. I have seen this on quite a few of the Legal Blogs, and it is being stated as a foregone conclusion. If we allow this to continue uncontested it may become a self-fullfilling narrative. To me that is unacceptable.
There are many in this country and others that are working hard to bring Bush, Cheney, and many others before the courts. In a recent interview with Bill Moyers, Phillipe Sands, a noted expert on Torture, Pinochet, and a author had this to say.
BILL MOYERS:Do you think that people like David Addington and John Yoo and Jim Haynes, and the other lawyers you've mentioned who advised and were on the torture team, should ultimately be held responsible in court for what they did in government at this period of time?
PHILIPPE SANDS:If they were complicit in the commission of a crime, then they should be investigated. And if the facts show that there is a sufficient basis for proceeding to a prosecution, then they should be prosecuted. Lawyers are gatekeepers to legality and constitutionality. If the lawyers become complicit in a common plan to get around the law, to allow abuse, then yes, they should be liable.
BILL MOYERS:There are people who say, "I don't want to hear about this." A lot of Americans say, "I don't want to hear about this." It's like being diagnosed with cancer. You don't really want to hear the terrible news. You know, this is something that was done in a particular period of intense fear and uncertainty. We had been attacked, 3,000 people killed right here in New York. And I just want the government to take care of it. I don't want to hear about the cruelty, the torture, the enhanced interrogation techniques. Do you understand why they would say that?
PHILIPPE SANDS:I do understand that. And here's what I'd say. I would want the government to take care of it in a way that is going to protect me over the long term. And if understand that using abuse produces pictures of the kind that have appeared at Abu Ghraib, and of the kind that have appeared at Guantanamo and are going to make it more difficult for me to protect the American public, I want to know about that. And if it is indeed the case that those pictures are going to make it more difficult to protect the American public, I want to sort it out, that we remove that obstacle to protecting the American public, and we ensure that it doesn't happen again in the future, and as necessary, make sure that those who erred in putting in policies that allow that to happen, face appropriate responsibility.
It is up to us to change the narrative, and to continue to pressure our Senators and Congressmen to make sure this does come before the courts through a Special Prosecutor.
Don't blame it all on Kentucky and Virginia either, for one my dad was a WWII frontline soldier that gave his hearing for our freedom, your's and mine. He taught me about freedom, and he was from Kentucky. Psychiatry would have taken his last bit of hope and left him with the label schizophrenic and took his freedom away from him if they had of been able to do so. He was smarter then they were. He defied psychiatry and was discharged from his service with an honorable discharge on his second tour of duty. That was back when 14 year old boys could still run away and find the true meaning of freedom and join the service when they were 17. He built an honorable life in the world without begging any more then he ever absolutely had to, which was seldom. He worked for what he got and raised a family, every trade, every skill he could master, every bit of education that he could get he got, but he was a lot like Einstein in the first place. I think his IQ was measured at 160. He bought a home and raised a family, and lost his only son, and then bought another and raised a garden and wrote a little poetry along the way. He had an ACLU case brougt in front of the Supreme Court over the posting of the ten commandments and they won! He was one of the most diverse people that I ever knew and he enjoyed diversity in others. He had an intelligent way of speaking and a good sense of humor. Many people need to be educated and we can't do that by dragging them down, we have to build community support and understanding. I only wish that I had of heard my dad way before I did way before he died, maybe I did in some ways. I hope it isn't too late for us to take back our constitution!
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