Because freedom can't protect itself
If the government is going to use my tax dollars to give these people money- I want to know that my money is going to good use, and is not being spent on drugs - and I would rather an increased cost for drug tests then my tax dollars going to waste. Having a welfare applicant take a drug test is not a violation of civil liberties - If I need a drug test to work, then why shouldn't those gaining the benefits off of my taxes have to do the same.
Also if anyone can clear up a question I have about these numbers here -if this law was only enacted for 4 months (1/3) of the year and this was only implemented on applicants (new to welfare and/or renewals?) and the drug problem is ~8%, and they found 2% in 4 months what would be the overall stats on a full year (including those already on welfare) .... 2*3 = 6 .... so maybe 6% maybe more?? .... I'm not a mathematician, so I welcome any clarifications :)
In the four months that Florida's law was in place, the state drug tested 4,086 TANF applicants. A mere 108 individuals tested positive. To put it another way, only 2.6 percent of applicants tested positive for illegal drugs — a rate more than three times lower than the 8.13 percent of all Floridians, age 12 and up, estimated by the federal government to use illegaldrugs. Now might be a good time to remind folks that in the debate over the bill, Gov. Rick Scott argued that this law was necessary because, he said, welfare recipients used drugs at a higher rate than the general population........
An average of 8.13% for drug use of all floridians - 2.6% of welfare applicant found in 4 months - I wonder what the % would be for a full year - 7.8%?
TANF applicants. A mere 108 individuals tested positive. To put it another way, only 2.6 percent of applicants tested positive for illegal drugs — a rate more than three times lower than the 8.13 percent of all Floridians, age 12 and up, estimated by the federal government to use illegaldrugs. Now might be a good time to remind folks that in the debate over the bill, Gov. Rick Scott argued that this law was necessary because, he said, welfare recipients used drugs at a higher rate than the general population........
An average of 8.13% for drug use of all floridians - 2.6% found in 4 months - I wonder what the % would be for a full year - 7.8%?
I drive a truck for a living. I am required to take a drug test and have been for over 20 yrs. I have never tested positive. The Federal Government has even said the rate of violatons is below .1%. No savingshere either, but that doesnt deter the present policy. Maybe they should pay for the test by doing some work!
Why is there no mention of the 2,306 persons who refused the test? You can verify that number with DCF.
Drug testing for people IN GENERAL is the dumbest idea yet. Someone can't do their job? Let's find out why. Do I care if Walt the postman smokes a doob over the weekend? Nope. We are supposed to be a free country, yet more and more, we find ourselves being policed, spied on, abused. I am afraid to say things out loud for fear someone is sitting in a van listening to me, or maybe because I posted something on Facebook that might be considered too left-wing. STOP IT.
I could care less about Florida politics, Rick Scott or even how the controversy over who is performing the drug tests. I am a liberal leaning independent. I do have concerns about children going hungry, or false positives… however in principle, I think this law is a really good idea. Not just me, all of my friends agree, and most of them are democrats. I am only for this in the case of welfare/foodstamps.
First I’d like to say to anyone who says this is an invasion of privacy, or demeaning to the poor…. You’re an asshole. I had to pass several drug tests for different jobs I’ve had over the years. How is that demeaning? If I can do it to get a job, I see no problem with taking one to get free money.
Second, there is something fishy about the 2% statistic. I mean we know statistically that 1 out of 6 people abuses drugs or alcohol. We know that 8.9% of American adults participate in the use of illegal drugs. When interviewing employers, reason for denying an interviewee a job due to failing a pre employment drug test ranged from 5% – 22%. The large range is due to different businesses and fields or work. So my guess is the people who applied for welfare, was also the adult in the household capable of passing a drug test. So testing may not be totally effective due to the fact that not everyone in the household must take the drug test… however I do feel better about putting the money a person’s hands who is not on drugs… even if someone else under their roof is.
Next, I could careless about cost. I’ve heard that argument a lot. To me, I don’t care if its cost effect to drug test versus how much you would save by giving everyone benefits. My concern is…. I do not want my money going into a drug addicts hands, and have my money enable that person to do drugs. If this costs me more as a tax payer, I’d be more than happy to flip the bill. And maybe we can find this person help with their drug problem.
I already listed the statistics above about drug use and employment. It’s not just the fact that this person is using government money to fund their drug problem, but also that their drug problem prevents them from finding employment…. And keeps them perpetually dependent. Some people want to punish drug addict welfare trash. I do not. If our goal is instead is to get people off welfare by getting them back to work… it seems important to make sure these people are first off drugs so they are capable of being hired. That’s a common sense non hateful approach. I mean think about it, these are people, a lot of times with families to support… yet their drugs are more important than finding work. Our money that we entrust an adult with to take care of their kids… that money not going to the children and instead being blown on a bad habit. It is a bad problem, and a very real problem. I know many have bleeding hearts. But I personally don’t believe in enabling addicts. Sometimes tough love is the answer
All I can say is WOW!!! All you people complaining about YOUR tax dollars being spent on people in the welfare program that truly needs help because Big Business decided they would rather spend 3 cents an hour to people in other countries and not have to worry about those peoples safety. What about the 4 trillion dollars of YOUR tax dollars on the war that has been going on for several years, what about the billions paid to government officials to sit around and talk about how they are going to mess with the general public, what about the trillions of YOUR tax dollars spent on needless research programs like how the beetle bug deals with the greenhouse affect. You people really need to learn where YOUR tax dollars really go. Do you honestly think that 45 million Americans want to be on welfare? They have no choice because all the jobs are being moved to other countries.
I am 54 yrs old and have work as a cashier for 32+ years, there was many nights that my child had to go to bed hungry because I could not afford enough food due to the high cost of rent, electric, and all the other necessary things needed to sustain a fare living, until 3 years ago when I fell down a flight of stares, now I can hardly stand. I now live on $770 dollars a month for rent, electric, heat, water, etc. and receive $270 dollars in food support for my daughter.(which I thank you for) oh, and that $770 dollars is child support not welfare or social security. The first 3 weeks of the month I am able to feed my daughter 1 meal a day, the last week of the month we are usually surviving on dry cereal and potatoes. I buy no snack foods. And you want to think YOUR taxes are making that big of a deal in my life that your supporting me! I would love to see you try to take care of your family on what I am dealing with. God knows I wish I could work. And I pray that non of you every lose your jobs to other countries, but then again maybe if you did you would understand more about what the 45 million Americans are dealing with. Also keep this in mind when you are complaining about YOUR tax dollars paying for everything, YES they are because the wealthy either don't pay taxes because they have their money in offshore accounts or they pay less then YOU the hard working Americans. And to the police officer that made a comment, remember THEIR tax dollars are what pay your salary too.
I've stayed out of these arguments and discussions for a reason, talking in circles, by both sides really accomplishes nothing.. but having to do an essay for school, and by school I mean I am a 43 year old white female who has raised her grown son, worked as an Insurance agent, a bartender and only ask for help when I could not buy food for my son when he was very small, I work full time now and I go to school full time, with student loans that I WILL be the one paying back... so anyway... I had my thoughts on this topic too, just the basic, I pass a drug test to work they need to pass a drug test for help... and because of this essay, I have read more, investigated more and have come to my own conclusions... I won't argue with those on here who seem dedicated to arguing for arguments sake... but I believe that the system is outdated, over- burdened and this is where the problem lies.. not with those "few" out of thousands, that may or may not do some kind of "illegal" drug...The system is abused, in more ways that one... years ago in SC, they passed the go to school get a job training program for those with kids starting school... meaning, if you were a welfare/ food stamp recipient, when your child turned school age, you were to report to mandatory job training, or have your benefits cut..the thought on this was, get your kids in school and help you join the work force... guess what... those who were determined to abuse the system...went out and got pregnant... can we prove thats WHY they did it ? NO... but did it keep them out of the work training... yes ma'm... for another 6 years... Here is what I suggest everyone do... Go to your local assistant office... count the hundreds of people that stand in line that day... How many of those people are illegal aliens? How many of those people are elderly and disabled? How many are young girls standing there pregnant with a baby on their hips? The system needs HELP... but standing there as you watch the line of those in need... please point out the drug users and system abuser and those who are in true desperate need and have no one/ no where to turn too.... Overhaul the system... There are always going to be the users/ abuser and there are always going to be cracks to slip thru...but just accusing everyone that needs help of using illegal drugs is like accusing everyone that drives a red car of being a speeder... or how about accusing everyone that has a house of being a drug dealer because , of course, thats the only way they can afford that house... come-on... really!!!!
So many people on here, dont know what the h... they are talking about. Lets all get drug tested. I bet it will be less TANF recipients than the general public. Drugs are illegal for all, not just the poor. SMH! The people on here that are crying the loudest,probably does the most drugs. Test me any day, hour, decade. It will be negative, because I dont do drugs. What about you?
"Maybe in Florida" is spot on. Good job.
I have always had to take a drug test before I have gotten jobs I applied for so why shouldn't these welfare recipients have to? I don't see the difference. As a matter of fact anyone that got hurt on my jobs also had to be urine tested for drugs. If they showed up, they were fired! So where's the difference, especially if they have nothing to hide?
We had our own daughter tested for drugs some years ago. Came back negative. Years later she told us she was stoned on acid, had been taking speed for months and had smoked several joints over 24 hours prior to the test. There are so many ways to beat a drug test these days; often they are inconclusive so it's unlikely the numbers in this article represent anything even close to reality!
I live in an area (California - welfare capitol of the U.S.) where thousands and thousands of people are sitting at home stoned out of their minds that are on unemployment, welfare, or some kind of public assistance. These people don't want to work; wouldn't take a job if you drove them to it and will take every dime the liberals put in their hands as long as it lasts! Why do you think Obama got reelected, who wants the gravy train to stop?
The lazy Schlubs SHOULD be drug tested to get my tax dollars! I have to be drug tested to keep my job so I can keep them fed and clothed, so they darn well better be drug tested to get my money!
So are we to believe, that in 4 months in the state of Florida..only 4086 people applied for food stamps?
I wonder what non issues the Roman Senate was debating in the last years of the great republic? I bet they looked a lot like this.
I fully support drug testing to get government benefits. My guess is the number who tested positive was influenced because many didn't bother applying, knowing that they would. I am tired of seeing people using drugs and selling their food stamps in order to do so. I stand behind this type of legislation 100%, even if there may be a better method of implementation.
Wow! If Florida is to be believed, people with great jobs and good lives are all drug users and those on welfare are all clean cut all -Americans. Maybe it would be cheaper just to give the poor free drugs so they can lift themselves to the upper class.
Yes, four months was long enough to determine it was a failure, and this was just Florida, why don't they try Michigan or Illinois, probably they will get a higher rate. If I have to drug test to put into the system, recipients should drug test to receive from the system.
The people of the ACLU, the same people that defend pedophiles regularly have shown how short sighted and idiotic you are. You can't even claim ignorance on this. It IS constitutional. If I have to submit to a urinalisys for a job they HAVE TO submit to one to receive money that they are NOT entitled to. It is a gift of the people who do bust their rear ends.
So 108 failed to receive welfare. Now each person that receives it and has dependents(say 3-4) would probably be getting $300-$600 each. 100 times $300-600= $300k-$600k saved. Now take away the total cost of the program and the program is still ahead and saving money. If you have money for drugs then you have money to support yourself. Oh and by the way, I am on food stamps, I don't do drugs, and I live within my budget.
$119,000 rounded up was the cost for the refunded $30.00 fee to the ones that tested Neg. 108 tested positive. $119,000 divided by 108 = about $1102.00 per person. Is that all they get on welfare per year? I don't think so. Somebody's math is screwy. I think the ACLU is coloring the result or not stating all the numbers.
$119,000 rounded up was the cost for the refunded $30.00 fee to the ones that tested Neg. 108 tested positive. $119,000 divided by 108 = about $1102.00 per person. Is that all they get on welfare per year? I don't think so. Somebody's math is of. I think the ACLU is coloring the result or not stating all the numbers.
Get your facts straight you left wing libtards:
Thank's to the ALCU at least 108 children are still living in crack houses in Florida.
The ACLU's hard work and diligence has paid off. At least 108 children are still living in crack houses in Florida.
welfare AND unemployment recipients should both be randomly tested for illegal drugs. ALSO they should lower the amount these people get.. i over hear multiple people in public places talking about how they were offered a job at $20 an hour and decided to turn it down because welfare/unemployment pays more... LAZY people are on these programs.. dont get me wrong some people do need help.. but to what extent.. my mom raised 5 kids on her very own without any welfare, she was a mail carrier and worked her ass off. .. lazy americans is all i can say. . lazy!! test them all so they can atleast do something for free money!!!
In case NONE of you were paying attention, Florida ALLOWED people to schedule the time they take the drug test. If it were a random screening or random visit at-home, the rate of positive drug testing would increase dramatically.
"i work for an airline and iam drug tested cause the faa says i have to,goverment, truck drivers are drug tested cause the goverment says so. think about that. this is the feds mandating this"
So you are in a job that , if you are high at the time, could cost A LOT of lives, Harm or Damage. (driving your bagage car and run into the planes Landing gear? OH i know what i am talking about...read the end,) YES you should be drug tested. Truck Drivers have the potential to kill someone if they are on drugs, ( i know many drivers) YES they should be drug tested. Any job that is Government, Including FAA regulations, that you are in a SAFETY position, Driving trucks, Flying Airplanes, Work Heavy machinery, YES you are drug tested, Private or Government. If you are not in a Position that could potentially harm someone or yourself, then no drug testing should not be done. BUT if you are in a Safety Position, Whether that be a Ramp Agent, A flight Attendant, Or the Pilot or any other who works for an AIRLINE, other then the Ticket agents and such, then YES drug test. Truck driver, Yes drug test. My Husband is a Airline Pilot. They do drug testing Randomly. It is a FAA thing. I agree with it.
The biggest question here is why people that are working TAX-PAYING citizens should have to be drug tested before being able to get a job, but the people our tax dollars go to don't need to be tested? If it is unconstitutional to be tested before taking money from the government, is it not also unconstitutional to be testing people who ARE working? The same people who pay for these people to sit on their asses all day?
People here need to learn that the constitution doesn't "protect you" from private employers, which can require pretty much anything of you, including drug testing. The ones spouting off about "my tax money" going to find the drug problems of poor (read: minority) people don't seem to have a problem with the billions in tax subsidies and refunds going to giant private companies making profits had over fist. That's welfare too people, only Fox etc isn't trying to demonize these companies and get you whipped into a frenzy. That's what's happening here. You folks are all eating up the propaganda about how evil poor people are, but nobody wants to look beyond what Rush Limbaugh tells them because these giant corporations that are receiving YOUR tax dollars don't want you to know about it. Keep eating up that propaganda folks - the rich puppet masters want it that way.
Ok, so they wanna test for illegal drugs, ok that is fine, but it should only be if they suspect that the person is in fact a drug abuser. Its not that hard to tell. But think about it this way uninformed people, for every person that comes back negative, you now have to reimburse that person for money they should not have had to spend. Cause oxycodine and such are NOT illegal drugs. The only way a person is gonna be able to show proof of a prescription is if they haul their cookies alllllll the way back to the docs office and get a written letter (by the way anybody can get that) and then haul their cookies alllllll the way back to social services. Wasting more money, not saving money. I hope they plan on reimbursing the wasted gas money to go back and forth to a doctor, and back and forth to social services, cause that alone is gonna cost more than the test alone, considering that where i live it can cost up to $80 to fill a tank. The only places that should be doing this are communities that are known to be in high drug use areas. You get into smaller communties, and the reimbursing is gonna throw their yearly budget out the window, possibly causing job loss and cuts in pay. I swear, nobody thinks about the rammifications before they set an action into place. Wake up people!!!
Almost 1,600 Welfare Applicants in Florida Decline to Undergo Drug Testing
Doesn't include the number of applications which dropped during the screening. Truth, what a bitch.
The wealthy have done such a good job of convincing the middle class that all our problems are caused by the poor.
#37 they only reimbursed the people who tested negative not the ones who tested positive.
I wonder who in the Florida state government got the lobbying money from the drug-testing kit company?
I live in Section 8, and most of us who do simply do not have the money to even buy our prescriptions without help.
Florida, however, would be doing us all a service by mandating that those who do have the money submit to weekly drug tests at their employment location, especially bank CEOs and $800-an-hour lawyers.
Of course, we could simply legalize marijuana, but that would take away all the kill-toys of the DEA and ATF, and we can't allow them not to have their kill-toys, can we? It's all about money.
something doesn't add up with these numbers. if 108 = 2% then it is implied that there are on 5,400 welfare recipients in the entire state. I find that an absurdly low number. so I did some digging. this has only been implemented for 4 months and has only been enforced on new applicants. I believe if you start testing ALL who receive welfare then you will see a much different story. If money is going to be pissed down a rat hole then I would rather piss it away testing for drugs then giving any to drug users. oh and by the way if your not a Florida resident then you have no dog in this hunt as it is paid for by the state.
here is something to note in 2008 there were 87,632 welfare recipients in Florida, now assuming there has been no growth in 4 years (yeah right) then the testing of 4,086 indicates that they only tested 4.66% of the static roll. now we all know that these rolls have grown in the past 4 years. with that said if you run the program as intended you would be very surprised at those results. I think the numbers are low because of the scope.
Try spinning these numbers
I have never read such a poorly written article in my life, along with pathetically ignorant responses. First off do your research. How many were tested? a little over 4,000 you say? so by your statistics of barely any failing the drug test that means that Florida only had a little over 4,000 TANF recipients? I guess the government data stating that 93,143 TANF recipients were in Florida during that time period must be wrong. Testing roughly 4% of recipients proves what point? Your data is honestly terrible. With thinking like this we would not have made it past the stone age. Where is your statistic that shows Florida lost over 10,000 TANF recipients during that drug test period? Did you forget in your ignorant mind that a 10,000 recipient drop when drug testing started then magically a 10,000 increase when drug testing stopped seems awfully suspicious? What is the percentage of writers like you that have above a 4th grade writing level? Somehow I think that number is similar to the amount of TANF actually tested. Seriously speaking, write a new article with actual real data, not your made up idiotic garbage you somehow shove in the minds of ignorant people who have zero common sense.
I know someone who is receiving welfare. They have a med marijuana card. Each month this person buys poppy pods and grinds them up and gets high off them everyday. Then, he spends money on high grade med pot and starbucks each day. The kids don't get anything, however, Dad is high as a kite everyday. Way to go welfare!
if they tested over 4000 people and 108 came back positive ,thats proof enough it works s. that 108 drug users not getting our tax money. The only people against this law would be the people who would fail the test.
I have read all these comments and heard arguments for both sides and I would like to add my input as someone who has worked and paid my taxes for over 30 years and never drawn any sort of government assistance. Some people argue that private companies can drug test because they are not the government, well apply for any government position, even as a garbage man and you WILL take a drug test. I agree with drug testing welfare recipients for the following reasons:
1. I am paying their salary and I am not the government!
2. The drug testing should be random.
3. The 4th and 5th generation welfare bums should be tested also, not just new applicants.
4. Alcoholism and drug addiction is not something my hard earned tax dollars should go for.
5. How many people do any of you personally know that have worked their way off welfare? I'll bet the percentage is lower than the positive rates the Florida tests exposed.
I could go on all day. What are these poor indigents going to do when we the taxpayer finally get fed up with over 50% of every tax dollar going to their well being. We won't have to worry about that though because our idiotic government will be in total economic collapse long before then.
Apr 18th, 2012 at 9:02pm
Re: Maybe in Florida:
"People have to take a drug test to be able to work, they should be dr ug tested if the government is going to pay them money to live on."
"If it is not unconstitutional to drug test someone prior to getting a job it sure as hell isn't unconstitutional to drug test someone that he is being paid by the government to live on in place of a job."
"I suggest you look up the Supreme Court case Chandler v. Miller. It deals explicitly with this topic.
Specifically, it says that the state cannot perform a warrantless d rug test on any citizen, with certain public safety exceptions.
Welfare isn't a job, it's temporary financial assistance provided b y the state. Your private sector job doesn't have to comply with the c onstitution, because that document protects you from the Government, n ot from other private citizens."
I suggest you apply for any Local, State, or Federal job and you WILL be drug tested. How is that constitutional? How many people do you personally know that worked their way off welfare. Florida's only mistake was announcing the law and not testing current 4th and 5th generation welfare abusers. I'll bet the positive test results would have been much different.
If you don't like the idea of having to take a drug test to get your "check" then don't get one that simple. It's a law and u have to follow it. ACLU is a huge waste of time because they are pulling America apart instead of putting it back together.
I don't understand how the ACLU can be on the side of stoner parents misusing tax-payer money that should be used for raising their children and instead putting it up their nose. I don't care if it costs more money to make sure children are being well cared for. I am on the side of the children. The ACLU does not seem to be on the side of strengthening families only weakening them.
It seems like most of the commenters on here only read 2/3 of the article before making up their minds. It clearly states that there was no reduction in applications after the law was passed. That means that people didn't avoid applying simply because they would be drug tested. And to those of you who think its easy to just get clean, take the test, pass, and go back to using let me ask you this.....if it's so easy then why is it so hard for drug users to get clean? Why are there clinics, rehab facilities, and special medications to get people off drugs if all it takes is to just stop doing it? It is NOT easy. It's not like quitting caffeine or even as easy as quitting smoking. It is hard, makes you sick, and takes more than a day or two to get clean. It just doesn't work that way.
try to help me understand, ACLU...you say this law is 'unconstitutional'?? where the hell were you when these welfare programs were set up!? THEY ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ENACTED!
I don't understand how ACLU claims This law is unconstitutional, but don't complain that all welfare programs are unconstitutional?!
Is the fact saving money from these drug tests the only concern people have?
What about screening everyone to ensure those that are receiving help; do not abuse or take this benefit as a joke.
Like everything else; there should be checks and balances and maybe we all can be more compassionate and show empathy. Today, we can't the system is being severly abused.
I am apauled of why the drug screening or other screenings have not been implemented years ago. What happened to investigations and through checks when someone applies? If one has nothing to hide or is honest and don't intend to abuse the system; than like applying for a job; or applying to rent somewhere; are we going to lie and falsify information? No; than why would we get all worked up over additional checks and balances for the welfare system.
How many of those recipients that were tested used their child's urine rather than their own??? That's a trick every druggie in the country knows, but apparently it's still a secret from those doing the testing.
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