Because freedom can't protect itself
"While the quiz is plainly contradicted by universally accepted scientific research"
The truth does not require your perceived universal acceptance. The ACLU has no business making claims about what science does or does not show. The FACT and the TRUTH of the matter is that the scientific evidence is increasingly contradictory of the theory of evolution and your interest needs to be truth-centric, not atheistic. You are guilty of promoting the indoctrinating of children. ... but the ACLU is notoriously hypocritical so... no surprises here.
This is sad. I believe in the Bible, but Genesis isn't mean to be read as a verbatim account of how the universe came to be.
Have you seen the latest? The Springboro school board is considering using the National Center for Constitutional Studies and/or the Institute on the Constitution to teach Constitution classes now required by the state.
A quick Google search indicates that they are both conservative Christian outfits pushing the "Christian nation" lie. The National Center for Constitutional Studies even claims that the founding of the United States was a divine miracle.
Personally I find Darwin's theory just as contrived as the Creation account. Why do we even have to teach evolution in schools?
"creationism advocates working their influence in the public schools..." you mean just like Darwinists worked their influence into the public school systems decades ago?!! What has been the result? Generations of people who believe they evolved from lower life forms. The propagation of Darwinian Evolution (extremely bad science) has lead to the mass destruction of human life in the womb and increasing lawlessness !!! When humanity rejects the idea that every human being is created in the image of God and as such that life is sacred, there will be no limit to the evils they will visit upon one another! ACLU - you do the works of your father, the devil! He was a liar from the beginning!
Why is the ACLU condemning creationism here? Doesn't the ACLU claim to serve the purpose of fairly supporting American's constitutional rights? Not decide what we should and shouldn't believe? Sure the article mentions that believing in Creationism is allowed, but it emphasizes how wrong the people are that believe in Creationism. It's articles like these that seem to undermine the integrity of the ACLU. A blatant jab at Christians really doesn't seem to serve a purpose.
The ACLU is not making a claim about what science does or does not show. They are simply pointing out that, in scientific circles there is no question about evolution by natural selection. Entire fields of science are founded upon it and the evidence in its favor is overwhelming.
Claims that "scientific evidence is increasingly contradictory of the theory of evolution" always go unsupported because, quite frankly, there are none.
The ACLU is not being "toriously[sic] hypocritical," they simply acknowledge reality, unlike the hypocrites and hucksters that we see highlighted in this article.
"The FACT and the TRUTH of the matter is that the scientific evidence is increasingly contradictory of the theory of evolution"
No. No it is not. Not even close.
You should try getting your scientific information from actual scientists who do this kind of research, and not blogs that have a creationist agenda.
Apart from an obvious atheistic bias, I fail to understand the ACLU's vigorous protests and criticism of Creationism, and all public discussion of religious perspective. No amount of scientific evidence or speculation proves Evolution any more conclusively. Why is it so importany to sacrifice the civil liberty of presenting opposing histories of human existence? In realty, the origin of our species is entirely theory and conjecture. No one knows definitively, nor ever will. Closed-minded zealotry is no more beneficial from an Evolutionist than from a Creationist.
I do admire how their creationist tactics of indoctrination keep evolving.
Creationism keeps losing in court because courts, like science, require verifiable facts, not opinions. No science disputes the age of the earth is in the billions of years. If Creationism was a science, they would conduct experiments and publish the results along with their methodology in peer reviewed journals. So far not one creationist has done so nor shared his/her rejection letter from such a journal stating why their submission was rejected. Telling.
You know what really, really annoys me? I am nearly 20 years out of primary school. School I attended in the deep south, Mississippi. And during all my time there, my school or science teachers never pulled this stuff on us. Which means I missed so many chances at dissent with authority and chances to backtalk the crazies trotted out to speak on such drivel. I feel like I was cheated out of part of my development as as child.
The youth of their today are most likely to become the same nigger-lynching, faggot bludgeoning inbreds of tomorrow.
Well done, bible belt... Well done.
It's about time we start to second amendment remedy those pushing for fairy tales in the world of reality. Religion had a good run, all those mass murders, slavery, mercy killings - it's time for it to stop and let reason take over like it's supposed to.
And if you don't agree, and you're a bible thumping cunt that thinks God did all this shit, go give up your computer, your modern science, and go live in a fucking cave where you belong. Fucking feckless cunts.
Leave it to an anonymous cunt to talk about how evolution is scientifically disproven, and how science is atheist.
Here's an idea. Your bible is bullshit. Your religion is of a sky fairy who is part sky zombie that you want to eat. You are a deluded piece of shit who deserves to be executed for your beliefs, and tossed in the trash bin of history, like the bullshit story of all the Abrahamic religions.
Wake up. Grow a set of balls. Stop wishing in fairy tales - or at least go put on some Tinkerbell wings and let the adults in this country know easily who's going to be swayed by baby stories and bullshit, so we can ignore you like you deserve.
Here's an idea. Your bible is a crock of rancid turds, just like your soul. Your religion is of a sky fairy who is part sky zombie that you want to eat. You are a deluded loser who deserves to be executed for your beliefs, and tossed in the trash bin of history, like the fake stories made up for the gullible idiots in the world - the story of all the Abrahamic religions.
Oh bible thumpers. Once you understand that we understand evolution down to the genetic level, you'll understand why i'm not worried about praying to, or through, another human being to interact with the universe.
I love that gem in the first post. "scientific evidence is increasingly contradictory of evolution..." i seriously almost spit out my dinner laughing.
Maybe you haven't seen the human family tree hosted on the Smithsonian's website. Ignorance is 8/10 of the law... in america.
FACT and the TRUTH of the matter is that the scientific evidence is increasingly contradictory of the theory of evolution//
Such as you idiot open a fucking book there are Christians who understand evolution bro open up a biology book it really isn't that complicated .Evolution isn't atheistic its science which bears no weight on any beliefs .The truth is the truth simple as that learn some science and if you can provide that proof go win the noble prize already?
we are far from being number one in education and sinking fast.
evolution is a fact backed by extensive research that challenges anyone with contrary views to offer those views in a peer reviewed scientific paper. religion is a mental disorder that requires irrational belief of ideas that have no scientific backing. those beliefs must be accepted as eternal, unchanging and unerring without evidence while science is exactly the opposite and science is what explains the world and makes things we use work.
When you dumb down children they become easier to control later in life. These religious factions will stop at nothing to indoctrinate the youth with lies. And it all comes down to power and this is what they don't want to lose. But there will be a time when we as a species become much more intelligent on a community level that religion will fad away like all fairy tales do. Yea sure they might wish to fight but it will be of no use because our intelligence will not let us fall victim to false stories or lies.
I hope the next generation in this country will be smarter than this.
The ACLU is plainly hypocritical.
It is meant to preserve freedom of speech but what are they doing? They are helping to harass and threaten those who challenge Darwinian/Macro evolution.
Why is the ACLU not defening/supporting those who challenge and scrutize Darwinian/Macro evolution on SCIENTIFIC grounds, surely this is a key componenet of the scientific method?
The evolution battle is often MISrepresented as science against religion - this is baloney!
The real battle is between good science and Darwinism. When Darwinian/Macro evolution is scrutinised using the scientific method, it crumbles.
The scientific method demands: observation, measurement, repeatability. Darwinian/Macro evolution has none of these, all it has is circumstantial evidence which is open to interpretation. Ask yourself: What evidence is there that our great .... Great grandfather was a self replicating molecule?
“Evolution” is a vague word. The main definitions in the text books are:
1) "change over time", this is silly as it is stating the flaming obvious.
2) Micro evolution is minor changes within a species, this is real and observable and uncontested.
3) Darwinian/Macro evolution (where the conflict is) which asserts that:
a) All living things had a common ancestor. This implies that your great….. great grandfather was a self replicating molecule.
b) The observable world has come into existence by totally natural, unguided processes and specifically WITHOUT the involvement of an intelligent designer.
Have a look at this link for details http://youtu.be/fQ_h-S7IuaM
Dr John Sanford (Geneticist and inventor of the GeneGun) said :
“The bottom line is that the primary axiom [of Darwinian/Macro evolution] is categorically false, you can't create information with misspellings, not even if you use natural selection.”
Um, no. Scientific evidence is NOT increasingly contradicting evolution. In fact, there are multiple research results and discoveries DAILY that continue to SUPPORT it. Evolution itself is a fact. Not only is it observed in real-time, but the amount of evidence supporting the theory is so immense, and growing daily, that it is universally accepted as truth among those who understand it. If you claim that it isn't truth, or that it has "evidence against it" (of which there is none), then your education failed you.
Biology itself cannot be taught without a proper teaching of evolution. It is the cornerstone of all life science, and it is fact. I would not trust a medical doctor to examine and treat me, for example, if he or she did not accept evolution.
The article mentions that "it's been nearly 90 years since the Scopes Monkey Trial", as though that event should have put us on a course towards reasoned thinking. That would make sense if Scopes had not been convicted.
Why does the ACLU not care about the freedom of those who want to challenge Evolution on SCIENTIFIC grounds? Surely they have rights too
Why does the ACLU assist those who want to shield Evolution from SCIENTIFIC scrutiny?
I fully applaud the ACLU's efforts to protect freedom. What I cannot understand is why the ACLU is not protecting the freedom of teachers and others who are being harassed for questioning Darwinian/Macro evolution on scientific grounds.
@Anonymous: There's really absolutely no scientific evidence that contradicts evolution. Some parts of it might be in dispute, (Such as a few mechanisms and stuff) but a: that's perfectly normal in science and b: the core aspects of it are scientific truth. Teaching children, or anyone else, otherwise is wilfully lying to them.
This thank you is late in coming. I applaud the continued vigilance of the ACLU regarding the defense of both the establishment clause and good science. I know this is only a fraction of the work that you conduct, but it is close to my heart. Thank you for all of your hard work. I consider you heroes.
aAs a science major in physics I am thoroughly disgusted with the invention and uprise in creationism and "intelligent design" being introduced into the classrooms. Yes, it is child abuse. They are providing kids false education and downright lies. Evolution has been proven over and over and time and time again. It's called a theory and people misinterpret what that means, a theory is a well established scientific analysis through experientation and observation. You want to know what else is a theory? Gravity, but I don't see anyone jumping off buildings to prove it wrong. Quantum Mechanics and Special Relativity are also theories, which seem to be doing just fine in offering proof. Without quantum mechanics, you can throw out every piece of technological device you you have, and you can start with your computer.
Creationism and "ID" have absolutely no evidence, no nothing to support their claims. They are fairytales and are based on faith; blind faith, which is a dangerously old fashion way of thinking. Christian fundamentalists are preventing the progress of humanity by demanding their position be taken. The only reason why there is a such thing as creationism, or "ID" is because science has been able to debunk the BS that religion has put forth. The religious became irate and had to come up with something to reclaim their power. Religious extremists claim scientists are arrogant and claim they are the only ones that can speak on behalf of science. Well first of all, arrogant? what is more arrogant than to claim you know what happens and where we go when we die, and how everything came to be? And yes, scientists are the only ones who SHOULD speak on behalf of science; they are the scientists! Just as a doctor is th only one that prescribes medicine, just as a professor is the only one who should teach, just like a mechanic fixes things. If you let just anyone do any of these things, you are prone to failures. Leave scientists to the pro's. If you want to teach creationism, offer it as a religious course, but what also makes the "Genesis" account any better than any other cultures creation account? All should be factored in if it is to be taught. If you want to deny evolution, do me a favor never go to the doctors again to receive antibiotics, just pray it away.
Bottom line, I've spent far too much time in labs and research to suggest that evolution isn't real. It's a slap in the face to all the hard work that science has ever made just to say "God" did it. That's a cop out. If "God" did it all, then what's the point of science? Whats the point in learning how things work, and function in biology? What to unravel the workings of "God" give me a break. Just like when science proved that the Earth isn't flat, or the center of the universe. LOL. And anyone who believes in th "young Earth" model that suggest that the Earth is ~6,000-10,000 yrs of age ... Help yourself to a real science education
Bottom line, I've spent far too much time in labs and research to suggest that evolution isn't real. It's a slap in the face to all the hard work that science has ever made just to say "God" did it. That's a cop out. If "God" did it all, then what's the point of science? Whats the point in learning how things work, and function in biology? What to unravel the workings of "God" give me a break. Just like when science proved that the Earth isn't flat, or the center of the universe. LOL. And anyone who believes in th "young Earth" model that suggest that the Earth is ~6,000-10,000 yrs of age ... Help yourself to a real science education.
ACLU? So you (your representative, the writer of this article) call Creationism "bad science" in this article. Why? You don't agree with Creationism? But some of us do. And we do not need to be deemed idiots because we do. We have the freedom to believe what we feel is scientifically proven by the way the body works. Its simple.
Creationism has no foundation? Creationism teaches that you were formed from the dust and to the dust is where you will return. You have a problem with the God thing...okay. But what about dirt? Do you have a problem with dirt?
What happens to a body when it dies? It turns to dust. So your are formed from dirt and you return to dirt... You do not turn into a monkey. And Creationist are illogical? Hmm...the body turns to dust as Creation teaches but that's not poof enough? Okay. You have that right. I don't judge you...why do you judge Creationism?
So the ACLU has the right to call what someone else believes "Bad"? You have formed an opinion. You are not for liberty for all. You have just as much hate as the people you claim to liberate society from.
Teaching that humans came from an advanced monkey that does not exist nor is no more far fetched than believing that there is a God.
There is NO real evidence that this evolutionary process of advanced monkey to human activity is happening at all. And a monkey being taught tricks, learned behavior, or stealing groceries and getting addicted to cigarettes is not proof. Its a smart animal like a whale or a dog. But this is tolerable to be taught as intellectual proof, meanwhile the proof of Creationism is all over your coffee table, your Swifter Duster or stuck to your rag scented with lemon pledge? But you must ignore that because you the skeletons of some deformed people that you call subhuman that are most likely just some ugly people. But what happed to them...they turned to dust? Oh, I see.
Next time I am at a zoo, if a monkey has a lucid conversation with me, then I may have to think about evolution. But it wont happen ever. Because its a well, its a monkey.
Science is HYPOTHESIS not truth. They use to teach us this in public school but things have soooo changes. Science is about testing and guessing ...estimations and drawing conclusions from the repeat occurrence of those test. Some of them are very good estimations... Some are flawed. It grows and it changes. But for some reason...anything that comes close to biblical history must automatically be refuted? Not fair and very small minded.
I am not anti science. I actually support science. A lot can be and has been learned. But I am real about it. You can't un-observe of things that span beyond flesh and blood and choose to ignore that they are there.
The method for proving such, may exist beyond a beaker. Science is not all knowing and does not hold ALL answers but it does hold a lot of answers. I am open enough to see that. Why cant you see that there is something more to existence?
Unfortunately, the "faith" in science is something that people who subscribe solely to the "Religion of Science" are closed to any other philosophies. That is so primitive and sad.
Science can be wrong, it can change. I am open to learning from it. Why do scientist, close their minds on the possibility that other truth, beyond your finite minds co-exist?
And to the writer above, never, ever, has Creationism or the bible taught that the world was square. Never. Pure anti religious propaganda.
All of this hate hidden under the guise of intellect...disturbing
Religion is OUTSIDE of science. Scientists do not deny the beauty of poetry. Creationists are confused fellow humans who do not transcend (understand) language and follow old scriptures replacing their parent's wisdom. God can have chosen evolution and would still be great. Jesus explained that everything is metaphore.
If you remove reason, every nonsense becomes true. This is a fundamental truth.
The TRUTH you want to find (and create) is very simple: It is the end of doubt and scrutiny and the end of responsibility. We call this Fatalism.
Creationism discredits science and replaces it with blind followship without a wish to understand and ask questions. = THE END OF PROGRESS
Too many commenters imply that Evolution proponents are, PER SE, Atheists. A blatant falsehood. I say Thank God for the ACLU (literally).
Too many commenters imply that Evolution proponents are all Atheists. That is a blatant falsehood (a.k.a., "bold-faced lie"). I say, thank God for the ACLU (literally).
Amazingly, the greatest era of scientific discovery was during the time of Copernicus, Bacon, Kepler, Galileo, Faraday, Newton and on and on. These were all great Christian men. Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, a famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." He seems to have it nailed down tight, science can't go it alone without the accountability of serious biblical understanding. Doubters with there supposed credentials couldn't hold a candle to these giants. I know the first lame response will be to claim they were not actually christians (yes, lets ignore historical facts) It's the same exact lie they use against "this nation was founded by christians with those morals and laws as are inheritance." Does our country continue to have lower test scores? Yes. Look and see that those scores started decreasing as the seculure agenda began taking a foothold in our society then to now the present. Evolution is a hoax propagated for those who would rather not be held to a higher power. Not that it matters, they can stick their head in the sand but eventually their problem will still be there and the consequences to bear will be no less. It seems a tragic short little life lived for themselves when the possiblity of eternal happiness is tossed out because they would rather be their own little god than trust in a "Creator" God . And they know it to be true, so sad.
The ACLU is simply on the side of a imposing a secular theocracy in our public schools rather than allowing free and balanced presentation of scientific controversies so that students can evaluate credible perspectives. Yes, a secular theocracy--since Darwinian evolution presents not only scientific, but theological claims.
And as for the claim that the scientific verdict is in, just look at the long list of credentialed scientists (most from secular universities with impressive pedigrees) who are either intelligent design proponents or outright creationists. The list won't go away just by someone saying these scientists and their research don't exist.
So let all sides be presented and stop trying to impose a secular theocracy in government schools.
I believe man was created in God's image, and I also believe that every other animal under the sun was created in his "image," as in 'God made all creatures great and small and his purpose was to love them all.'
Just b/c the Bible doesn't say an ape was made or created in God's image doesn't mean he didn't do it.
I knew a microbiologist with a Ph.D from Northwestern University. He was the first and so far only person who told me "lack of evidence in scientific terms DOESN'T mean the thing doesn't exist. It only means they haven't yet invented the machine that can quantify and prove by scientific reasoning that it exists.
The most prominent example of this statement occurred with people in the era before high-powered electron microscopes were invented. Nobody could see microbes before the electron microscope was invented, and some supposedly "intellectual" people - IOW scientists - went about saying that bacteria and viruses don't exist, then targeted the patient as being 'delusional.'
They had no scientific way of quantifying bacteria and proving its existence, they saw people getting sick from it, yet they still clung to their 'scientific methods,' which were doing them no good and harming people mentally who really were sick with something. They would frequently blood-let patients with bacterial and viral illness to 'drive out demons they believed were causing the sickness.'
Bloodletting worked only b/c it decreased bacteria in the blood enough to allow the immune system to take over the microbes and destroy them. But the patients would die from too much bloodletting for the obvious reason of bleeding to death."
This is why he believes that "a lack of evidence does NOT prove it doesn't exist." It might mean they haven't invented the machine that will scientifically show it.
Here's your fun fact of the day: "Seperation of church and state" is actually not mentioned in the United States Constitution. Thomas Jefferson actually just had the idea in a letter. It wasn't everyone's idea....just one man's and I guarantee you that 99.9% of Americans didn't know that.
I will leave you with only one question..... If 'unbelievers' have a right to freedom of religion, why don't 'believers?' If the school is located in the Bible Belt and the trips were approved by local officials and was supported by parents, then it is not unlawful by any means
"I will leave you with just one question..... If unbelievers are allowed freedom of religion then why aren't believers? If a trip was taken in the Bible Belt and approved by local officials and supported by parents it was not unlawful in any way. "
My daughter was a part of Stinnett Elementary's trip to Creation Museum. Permission slips were sent home, and had to be signed before a child was permitted to attend. No child was forced. If you want to be a non believer, that is your right. It is my right to be a believer, and to raise my children to believe as well. This country was based on religious freedom. Don't judge me or any other parent for exercising or rights just as you are exercising yours. Just because you and your family so not believe, does not give you the right to try to force you beliefs on me and my family. Thank you!
They have "all the answers" except the important ones and for those they either browbeat and bully you in to never asking the questions or just plain refuse to answer at all - w/ or w/out browbeating or bullying.
Questions like "Why did God take a 6-month old baby who had no prior illnesses and no warning that she was going to die - not even from the baby monitor in the wealthy family she lived in - but leave someone like Rush Limbaugh to "languish on the vine" so to speak for years on end without ever once appreciating the life he's been given?
Or "What was God doing on the morning of September 11 when terrorists were able to over-ride more than 25 attempts to be stopped and cause what happened to all the unsuspecting people that day?"
Any number of questions that you could ask ad nauseum and never receive anything more than ungodly anger (and in totally disproportionate amounts) from the recipients who "believe God loves all people the same and blesses everyone equally."
I unfortunately used to know someone who worked at the Creation Museum and he was the biggest liar I ever met even beFORE I knew what they do there, which I didn't know until now.
People who have the strongest belief in God almost NEVER have had anything like losing their 6-month old baby in the night without warning and without subsequent sufficient reason happen to them, and they're the ones who get the most angry about any little thing you question when it comes to all things God and wonderful.
Like all the pastors who said God "DIDN'T take the lives of Sandy Hook children."
Because we all know that apparently God couldn't do anything or why did he sit by and watch as it unfolded? Why was "Adam Lanza's choices" so much more important for Adam Lanza to have made than letting 6-year olds live into adulthood? Their explanations make it SOUND like God thought Adam's choices mattered so much that they overrode more than 20 children's lives.
Well I don't know why it seems that way, and neither does anybody else, the only difference being they don't even WANT to know. They're more apt to get ANGRY with you for asking than actually wonder WHY this stuff happens. But I want to know b/c I've experienced at least one of the scenarios I mentioned at the beginning inside my own family but I wondered even before that.
Until these people answer those questions withOUT getting all-out angry, I'll continue to have no faith in anything they say.
I used to have a pastor who claimed God WANTED you to ask the tough questions, but then when I didn't shortly thereafter embrace him as Love and Wisdom and Equal Opportunity Blesser, even he became miffed at me.
It never fails to amaze me what people find to get upset about; i.e., I don't give a damn about whether creationism or evolution occurred, at least not enough to spend endless hours arguing about it with people I know are never going to change their minds.
As terrible as war was for me, the one thing I can say FOR it is that everyone's a believer in a fox hole. A believer in SOMEthing and what his comrades think of the Afterlife matters very little, because he's too busy watching his own as well as his comrades back and vice versa.
This president has noted the fact more than once when he mentioned that "People fighting the war are not Republican or Democrat." And he's right. You stand next to your comrades and make sure they won't stand alone and they do the same for you. It's one of the ways you improve your chances of winning a war or at least coming home vertically instead of horizontally and in a body bag.
Since I've returned, I've found parts of civilian life to be quite silly.
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