Tenet Riposte

I'm loving the Tenet book tour. But, in case you hadn't heard, At The Center of the Storm apparently confirms that the CIA used the "most aggressive" interrogation tactics possible against high level terrorist suspects, which, Tenet claims, produced quite valuable intel (he also "writes defensively" about the NSA spying program, but that's a different thread).In any event, I may have been overly glib this morning when writing about Senator John McCain's appearance on Fox News Sunday, where he was asked directly about Tenet's torture claims. The good Senator shut Tenet (and Chris Wallace) down completely. Here's the full transcript (check out the bolded bits):

WALLACE: Senator, you talked about torture. Former CIA Director Tenet now says that the intelligence that they got from harsh interrogation techniques against some of these big Al Qaida types, like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed — the intelligence they got from them using, reportedly, things like water-boarding, extreme temperatures, was more valuable than all the other CIA and FBI programs.Were you wrong? I mean, this is the CIA, former CIA director, saying this. Were you wrong to limit what CIA interrogators could do?J. MCCAIN: A man I admire more than anyone else, General Jack Vessey, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, battlefield commission, told me once — he said, "John, any intelligence information we might gain through the use of torture could never, ever counterbalance the image that it does — the damage that it does to our image in the world."I agree with him. Look at the war in Algeria. Look, the fact is if you torture someone, they're going to tell you anything they think you want to know. It is an affront to everything we stand for and believe in.It's interesting to me that every retired military officer, whether it be Colin Powell or whether it be former chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff — everybody who's been in war doesn't want to torture people and think that it's the wrong thing to do. And history shows that.We cannot torture people and maintain our moral superiority in the world.WALLACE: But when...J. MCCAIN: And that's a fact.WALLACE: But when George Tenet says...J. MCCAIN: I don't care what George Tenet says. I know what's right. I know what's morally right as far as America's behavior.WALLACE: But if I may, sir...J. MCCAIN: Yes, sir.WALLACE: ... when George Tenet says we saved live through some of these techniques...J. MCCAIN: I don't accept it. I don't accept that fundamental thesis, because it's never worked throughout history.And so again, I know this for a fact, and anyone who's had experience with this, I think, that's — well, the people I respect will tell you that if you inflect enough physical pain on someone, they will tell you anything they think you want to know in order to relieve that pain.That's just a fundamental fact. And we've gotten a huge amount of misinformation as well as other information from these techniques.

You go, sir!

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Anne Gibbs

I agree with the above comment that causing pain to(or harassing)someone in a hostage situation may cause that person to tell his torturers anything that he thinks his torturers want to know in order to relieve his pain. Thus, the one being tortured may give out misinformation just so the torture stops. That is why in my case I know it is not misinformation because the more I speak out against this 'virtual' imprisonment,the torture(harassment) doesn't stop, it becomes worse.That is why I know I am speaking and writing about things they don't want people to know. Also, that is why for so long I remained silent. After I had that confrontation with the Regis and Kelly Show, I was harassed terribly the following Saturday at my son's cross country meet.Later in the day, my husband told my son and me that the concession stand was selling "pickles-on-a-stick" and they were really dried up and gross looking. My son said that yeah, he had noticed that because when he was running the course, several times certain kids would stick out the ones they were carrying and try to wave them in front of his face. He also said at one point a kid almost hit him with it. I didn't think much of it at the time but,the next day, our cat was found dead on the neighbor's walkway(believe me, I am not accusing the neighbor-I know they didn't do it).This cat was named Smokey but I had nicknamed him Pickles from the very beginning because he kept escaping out our back door and that always reminded me of the cat in the movie "Ladykillers" who was named Pickles and always kept escaping out of the house into the yard. The cat had no external injuries just blood coming out of his mouth. My husband, who grew up raising animals, stated that he thought it was as if his neck had been broken. He theorized that it was probably the garage door that landed on his neck and that, after being injured, the cat had dragged himself to the neighbor's yard, looking for help. I have my own theory on what had happened to Smokey(or "Pickles"-on-a-stick) because when I had mentioned that our country was now being run by a "right wing" mob to Regis Philbin, he had nodded "yes". Another time I spoke out against this harassment, I was followed by this man when I went to get my hair done. He sat directly in back of my chair in the salon's waiting room as I got my hair cut and just stared me down. The stylist once or twice looked back at him over her shoulder with a questioniong look. He ended up following me until I finally lost him when I went into a ladies restroom and then I ran to my car. This happened in January. From that point on, I wouldn't go anywhere without my husband or kids, only to work. I stayed in the house alot. Not because of depression,Ellen, but because of fear.(oh, by the way,Ellen, I do like L'oreal Excellence Creme). The harassment is embarassing and demeaning but this I can stand. It's only when I am concerned about my physical safety that I get scared. I have been threatened physically three times when I have been out in public places over the past 18 months. The most unbelievable place I am harassed is at Church.For example, there is a guy that would race up to stand right behind me in the Communion line and then snore loudly as we walked. Yes, I realize that I snore. Believe me, I have been reminded of it daily. The most unbelievable time at Church was when this well-dressed woman actually flipped me off as she passed me to receive Communion. Here, as Catholics, we believe that we are receiving the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus when we receive Communion, and this woman is flipping me off right before she receives Him. Unbelievable! I am not going to stop attending Mass just because they want me to. I am there for Jesus, not them. So, I won't stop attending until they actually lock me out and have guards at the door(oh yeah, they already have those-they are called ushers; or like my kids use to call them in Illinois,"demon ushers", because if they didn't want you at Mass, they made your life miserable while attending). People reading this may say that all of this isn't true, but it is. And those in the network who have been allowed all of our personal information over the years know that it is true. What really, really hurts is when you are mocked by members of your own family because my brothers and sisters are in the network and are aware of everything that is happening to me and my family. I know that they are probably scared to and are fighting for their own personal welfare. My one brother is a doctor with 6 kids and doesn't want socialized medicine. My other brother is a business owner and doesn't want labor unions. My sister is an attorney who wants to start her own business.She had also made this weird statement to me, when I first started wondering if our house was bugged and I approached her for help because she was an attorney. She said that she had decided a long time ago that she would never be poor like she was for so long when attending college and grad school. I thought at the time it was a weird comment based on what I was asking her for help with. When you are surrounded by people in the network and are basically persecuted by them, you learn alot; especially, when they think you don't have a brain in your head and they can just talk about you right in front of you(even at my niece's graduation party when they were discussing my son's future career.He is very smart and they thought he still wanted to be an attorney. One of the guys my brother was talking to said that that was ok,he won't be able to get in a firm but he could always set up a nice private practice and do ok. I didn't even know this man and he is discussing my son's future with my brother.)The arrogance of this agenda is unreal! You can believe me or not but I thank God I finally have a way to get my story to some people who may not be part of this agenda and will try to do something about it. One other thing I found out about this agenda is that everyone in the network is not going to be treated equally. It is going to be very segregated, even the churches. Like I said you can believe me or not. I just want to fight back in some way to help my family and others who are going to be affected.

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