Feb 26th, 2009
Posted by Matt Coles, Director, ACLU Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender & AIDS Project at 12:51pm	LGBT Rights

Prop 8: Let’s Not Make the Same Mistake Next Time

(Originally posted on Huffington Post.)

After losing an election, it’s important to look back and figure out why. That’s the only way to make sure that you don’t keep making the same mistakes.

There has been a lot of discussion about what the No On 8 campaign did, and whether it was right or wrong. Unfortunately, there hasn’t been nearly enough focus on what is likely the single most important factor in our loss: that we needed to get the votes of people deeply conflicted about marriage to win. As I’ll explain, we’ll always be vulnerable in an election where we need conflicted voters to win.

If we have to go back to the voters—and we will have to do that, if not in California, in other states that have passed constitutional amendments—we need to make sure we have more committed support before we begin an election campaign. The good news is, we know how to do that, and we have the capacity to do it. The catch is that this isn’t something we can push off onto campaign managers and media experts. All of us—gay people and our allies—are going to have to talk to our friends and family. If we don’t, we could run the best campaigns imaginable and still lose.

Conflicted Voters: The Reason We Lost

The polls and other research show that when the campaign on Prop 8 began in earnest, around Labor Day, voters in California fell roughly into three groups: 1) those who supported marriage for same-sex couples (about 40 percent); 2) those who opposed marriage for same-sex couples (also about 40 percent); and 3) voters who were seriously conflicted (about 15 to 20 percent).

That group of “conflicted” voters was mostly made up of people deeply uncomfortable with marriage for gay couples, but who were also uncomfortable with the idea of taking something positive away from other people.

On Labor Day, a large majority of the conflicted voters were telling pollsters that they planned to vote against Proposition 8. That likely reflected the fact that pro-marriage forces had been effectively defining the debate. Up to that point, almost all of the public conversation about marriage had been positive, from the first gay wedding of Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin, who’d been together over 50 years, through countless stories in smaller media about local couples tying the knot.

Gay marriage was a “feel good” story and, to use today’s jargon, that “feel good” story set the frame of the public conversation from May to September. Most conflicted voters seemed to think it would be small and mean to take marriage away. Even if they didn’t support gay marriage, they were beginning to think they could live with it.

Conflicted voters started to change their minds when the Yes on 8 forces successfully figured out how to inject children into the debate. They did that with the “prince/princess” ad and others that followed it. In that ad, a very young girl comes home with a book in her hand and says to her mother, “Mommy, guess what I learned in school today, a prince can marry a prince, and I can marry a princess.”

It was a devastatingly effective piece. This ad finally provided an answer to the question that we’ve put at the heart of our framing of the issue: how does my marriage hurt your family? The ad’s message was that same-sex marriage would mean that small children would be taught (“guess what I learned”) what being gay is, and that they can be gay (“and I can marry a princess”). That’s a prospect unacceptable to many Americans, people who think of themselves as fair minded, who generally oppose discrimination but who still don’t think a seven-year-old should be exposed to conversations about anything having to do with LGBT people. Some think it will take away their children’s innocence, because they still think of anything gay as “inappropriate” for the young. Others think greater acceptance will give children more “options” and lead to more children becoming gay when they grow older.

The idea that school-age children might be taught that they could be gay gave those conflicted voters a way to decide to vote “Yes” without feeling mean about it. They could tell themselves that if gay marriage meant teaching second graders they could be gay, maybe we weren’t yet ready for gay marriage. It was too much too soon.

We can (and probably will) debate forever whether No on 8 could have had a better response, should have had a different field campaign, should have had a different campaign structure, etc., etc. Our greatest challenge, however, is that too many Americans continue to view LGBT people, and same-sex relationships in particular, as not entirely legitimate.

If we want to win, we have to change that.

Research has shownthat the single most effective way to change people’s minds on LGBT issues is through one-to-one conversations, between either gay people or solid allies and their friends and family. Knowing someone gay, it turns out, is not enough. People have to talk with someone they trust about what it is like to be gay—ways in which it poses special challenges, ways in which it is quite ordinary.

People have to hear about discrimination from a personal perspective, not as an abstract principle. No one does that better than gay people, but straight allies, particularly straight women talking to the men in their lives, do it quite well also. And when people hear about what it’s like to be gay from friends and family members, they change their thinking. People who’ve been supportive get personally involved. And people who were conflicted become supporters.

Early in January, the ACLU approached Join the Impact, one of the grassroots groups that grew up in the wake of Prop 8, about trying to create a campaign to get people to talk to friends and family. They liked the idea. So we wrote explanations of why the conversations are important and who to talk to, we got resources on how to have the conversations, we wrote snappy answers to people’s excuses, we created a theme (Tell 3) and we built a website. To see it, go to www.tell-three.org.

Join the Impact launched the site, and at the same time, other LGBT organizations either endorsed it to their own members or launched their own versions. If you are in California, you probably heard about Tell 3 from Equality California. If you were at Creating Change, it was the Task Force that pushed it. If you get Freedom to Marry’s emails, you heard about it from them. There are no copyrights on Tell 3 and it will likely evolve in scores of directions. Tell 3 is owned by the community.

Tell 3 is only going to work if each and every one of us does it—if we tell 3. And only if we do that will we cease to be political hostages to people who doubt our legitimacy. Only if we do that, will we start to win enduring political victories.

Permalink |	LGBT Rights

1. liberal hater Says:
   Feb 26th, 2009 at 1:59pm

   You FAGS and DYKES lost on prop 8. Face it. Your a bunch of disgusting, sodomizing, freaks who want to support pedophilia(NAMBLA).

2. lokywoky Says:
   Feb 26th, 2009 at 5:30pm

   Ahh LH.

   I am sorry that you are so conflicted about your own sexuality. It has been my experience that people who are so rabidly against something are usually guilty of that themselves.

   So...maybe you need to go see a counselor to determine if you are in fact gay.

   Or, and I would be careful with this one - since you seem to think that gay people are actually pedophiles, you maybe have some tendencies in that direction?

   In any case, I highly recommend counseling to resolve all this anger and hate.

3. Karen Grube Says:
   Feb 26th, 2009 at 8:07pm

   Is there some part of "No means No" - that is, "No gay marriage" - that you don't understand? I'm sorry, but sob stories from gays and lesbians or their families don't change people's minds. Really, they don't. Besides that, don't you have better things to spend your time on? There are REAL issues going on with, for example, the way prisoners in our state prisons are being treated that are clear violations of their civil rights.

   Marriage should and will appropriately remain the union of one man and one woman. Where the voters of ANY state have been allowed to have their voices heard on this issue, they have resoundingly rejected gay marriage. Find another battle. You lost! And honestly, the actions of the ACLU are in large part one why this battle was lost. No one likes bullies, whether they walk in with a baseball bat or a law book. And those of us who support traditional marriage are just not going to let you bully us into allowing what we know is wrong for us, our children, our families, our state, our country, and our society! You really need to find better, more important issues to spend your valuable time on.

4. john denos Says:
   Feb 26th, 2009 at 9:36pm

   I am all for tell 3. Except i would tell why same sex anything should not be law.God first of all says sexual immoral behavior(homosexuals,adulters,fornicaters,orgies)is a sin.Second it goes against family values and morals.How can we as a nation continue to receive Gods blessing if we don't honor His word.

5. gary47290 Says:
   Feb 26th, 2009 at 9:38pm

   Gays and lesbians were criminals in 1976, when Willie Brown got the legislature to repeal the California sodomy laws.

   Prop 22 "won" in 2000, with 61%
   Prop 8 "won" in 2008, with 52%

   Today's teens strongely support marriage equality.

   You do the math.

   A repeal of prop 8 will come in the next few years, and this time, justice will prevail.

   You d

6. Chaz McCabe Says:
   Feb 26th, 2009 at 9:43pm

   Forgive my laziness. I've written this before, so I'm only going to link to it. Marriage as a legal institution is fundamentally flawed: http://capnsurly.livejournal.com/2025.html

   Thanks,
   Chaz

7. Terry Says:
   Feb 27th, 2009 at 6:57am

   "Conflicted" voter.... are you insane... no conflict.... they just didn't want homosexual marriages... end of subject. Your legal antics didn't work, the rioting didn't work, the invasion and vandalism of churches didn't work, the celebutards hysteria and presumed influence did not work. People are sick of the subject ... your sexual preference is your own ...changing that to marriage...please.
   The ACLU is a joke...20% cut in your workforce hopefully will expand until you guys fold altogether.

8. NO WAY Says:
   Feb 27th, 2009 at 11:50am

   Your lifestyle choice is not natural and therefore, it will never be legitimate! Regardless of who you try to talk to, the fact remains two roosters can not lay an egg. Two wrongs do not make a right!

   It's a poor choice that ultimately ends in despair and loneliness because the unnatural perpetuation does not produce a continuum.

   Stay in your own home, shut up, and live your life, and we will leave you alone. Keep up all this nonsense of legitimacy and we will continue to resist you in greater numbers and with more zeal.

9. Dr. Matthew Says:
   Feb 27th, 2009 at 11:57am

   I fully support the assessment here, with one caveat - I don't think we always require face to face knowledge to connect to the fact a group is accepted. It's absolutely imperative that any campaign be willing to use words like "gay" or "lesbian," and that individuals affected be shown in the media. Equality CA barred and censored any comments to this effect from their website/blog, and continues in efforts to both hide their leadership and make the leadership insular from constructive feedback and comments from volunteers. Join the Impact is phenomenally more responsive and open to hearing what occurs on the street, in my opinion, so I hope their collaboration allows for great openness, access, and less homophobia on the part of our own ad campaigns.

10. Paen Says:
    Feb 27th, 2009 at 1:14pm

    Liberal hater are you aware that studies have shown that many of the loudest and most violent of the gay bashers were in fact gay themselves but just didn't want to admit it?

11. Apostle Shada Mishe Says:
    Feb 27th, 2009 at 3:13pm

    THE CURE for HIV/AIDS.......AMBUSH

    THE IDEA that AMBUSH cures AIDS
    is being proven by the more than 400 individuals who have taken a dose of 60 ml three times daily for 21 days. The result is that AMBUSH 'KILLS' the virus by causing the protein envelope to rupture and the viral particles are discarded by the white blood cells. AMBUSH is able to 'KILL' the virus that are 'hiding' in the lymph system by its 'natural radioactive' properties. This process allows the body to 'return to normal health' with a corresponding immunity to that or those strains of the virus.

    What is AMBUSH ?
    AMBUSH is a radioactive isotope of uranium that is found in the 'palm' plant of which there are more than 3000 species. When ingested, AMBUSH causes the body temperature in the trunk area to rise to about 102 degrees when the individual is sleeping. The preparation takes four hours per batch, which is then given to the individuals for consumption 60 ml three times daily for 21 days. AMBUSH is a herbal preparation in this form but it contains an active ingredient which is a 'NEW' crystalline substance, a drug from the 'palm plant' similarly to ASPIRIN originating from the willow tree bark

    RESULTS:
    After 21 days on AMBUSH, ALL the individuals experienced a decrease in viral load to undetectable, an increase in cd4, increase in RBC, an improvement in general health such as more color to the face, decrease in Buffalo hump, an increase in gluteal muscles, a decrease to having no joint pains whereby individuals can bend to touch their toes, and walk up steps are but a few examples. There is also a dramatic increase in their sexual appetite beginning after the first week of therapy

    DISCUSSION:
    In any plant concoction such as percolated 'tea', there are 30-40,000 compounds, whi ch would take the scientific community twenty years to isolate one particular ingredient if they knew what they were looking for. The LORD GOD has given me seven steps to isolate the active ingredient, which is soft and metallic in nature and has a carbon- uranium-sulfur-(classified)-phentolamine configuration or structure. This is similar to Federick Kekule and the discovery of the benzene ring where he dreamt the structure.

    As an antiviral and 'natural radioactivity' producing agent, AMBUSH is also effective against leukemia, lupus and HPV. Here I am saying that I have 'GIVEN' AMBUSH in the same 'strength' and dosage to patients with leukemia, lupus and HPV. A 35 year old male with HIV found it difficult to impossible to urinate was put on 'green tea' and water while the doctors contemplated prostrate surgery. One of the doctors gave him my number , I sent him a supply of AMBUSH an d he has not been given any more ARV's, since taking AMBUSH 18 months ago, is in 'good' health and has expressed a willingness to be examined by HIV investigators like many others who have taken AMBUSH.

    I have sent this 'IDEA' to most HIV research agencies, scientist of the field, universities, hospitals, clinics, politicians and news agencies to which it is REJECTED because the name of THE LORD GOD is mentioned. He has steered me scientifically through the processes such as which plant and how to produce the active ingredient. What are the odds of a Florida Pharmacist picking a plant would contain the CURE for HIV/AIDS ?
    I have never charged any of the people for their supply of AMBUSH but a life saving has been spent on the project with NO renumeration from any sources because AMBUSH falls outside the walls of modern medicine and research.

    PROPOSAL:

    My proposal is that I PROVE that AMBUSH CURES HIV/AIDS by giving it to a number of END-STAGE or DRUG-RESISTANT people and the scientific community watches their recovery. This proposal addresses the problem in that I have already outlaid the results to be obtained.

    This IDEA is unconventional in that the scientific community has rejected AMBUSH because I say it is GOD given. Secondly if I wrote it according to certain standards, then it might be peer reviewed. However, THE LORD GOD has also shown me that there are five enzyme systems associated with the virus, reverse transcriptase, protease, fusion and two more of which causes the virus to be AIRBOURNE. This means that without DIVINE intervention mankind and ALL warm- blooded mammals will be extinct in a number of years.

    The PROOF of what I am saying is found in scientific papers wherein it is found that when the protease cuts the viral strands, it cuts it at DIFFERENT lengths EVERY time, to which it should always be a valine at the end but is a different amino acid every time. This is why it is IMPOSSIBLE to produce a VACCINE.

    Since this is NOT a hypothesis but there are about 400 individuals who have taken AMBUSH, here lies a vast area in which to check, recheck and confirm that AMBUSH CURES AIDS. Let it be mentioned that during the HIV reproductive cycle, reverse transcriptase converts viral RNA into DNA compatible to human genetic materials. Thus the human DNA has been 'hijacked' and since each person has a DIFFERENT DNA, then the new viral copy is unique to that person which shows that each individual has a DIFFERENT STRAIN of the virus. Consider two HIV positive people swapping viral strains and increasing its complexity with multiple partners.
    It can also be proposed that they be revisited as proof that the strain or strains that they had were 'killed' at the time of taking AMBUSH considering that a person can catch as many different strains as there are people who are infected by HIV.
    I am also willing to work with the scientific community in identifying those individuals who took AMBUSH and wish to be identified with this process notwithstanding that some are stigmatized while others are jubilant,

    Once AMBUSH is verified as being able to accomplish that which is aforementioned then the next stage might be the natural and artificial synthesis of the substance.

    Finally, if this is accepted or not, believed or not, THE LORD GOD always wins and this is the heavenly truth to which AMBUSH was divinely given to mankind for the CURE of HIV/AIDS and it will be here forever. Apostle Shada Mishe.

    apostleshadamishe@gmail.com

    Here is a video taped presentation that I gave at t he Martin Luther King library in Washington

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V53D1w__Po
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPwuwlVBOV0
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZejptOwMTzQ
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqcTgIAhrhc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7HPKcT_iwY
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9iQfgiYAnw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3RzRS6tJDM

12. Brett Bellmore Says:
    Feb 27th, 2009 at 5:27pm

    "Liberal hater are you aware that studies have shown that many of the loudest and most violent of the gay bashers were in fact gay themselves but just didn’t want to admit it?"

    Sheesh, that clumsy effort at pop psychology judo again. Give it a rest, won't you? Nobody buys it.

    Here's the mistake you made: You've concentrated so long and hard on persuading the courts, that you got lazy about persuading the public. You need to lay off forcing this down people's throats, (Which closes minds.) and get down to persuasion again.

    And you need to understand the difference between *tolerance* and *approval*. Plenty of people who think homosexuality is bad and disgusting are ready to tolerate it, on the theory that you didn't have any choice in the matter, and so can't be blamed. But that doesn't mean they're prepared to extend their approval.

    And having their children taught in school that homosexuality is good is just a bit too much for them to stomach.

    The problem that advertisement presents you is that it's fairly realistic: You DO insist on teaching children in public schools to approve of what their parents don't approve of, making enemies of people who didn't have to be.

    You want to start winning elections, instead of just court cases, you're going to have to change that perception, by changing the reality.

13. jimoerike Says:
    Feb 28th, 2009 at 2:02pm

    The falling is a calling to the people of America to wake up take notes, remember & react.
    So we have same sex marriages that have been voted in in some states and have been voted out of some of the states that they were voted in to.
    Good I say for the re-rise of our great America.
    For people to have rights they have to be a people unto themselves, gays & lesbians are not this way, their rights are not the same rights as normal people. They can not reproduce their kind by having sexual relations with one another to obtain this, but to ridicule the married family they insist they have their rights violated because we do not recognize marriage in their arena. Nor can we, because it is false.
    So now some states will give in to the marriage thing & so be it..
    But never must we give in to allowing them to adopt purely innocent children to let them adopt straight children and raise them in their immoral abnormal,unnatural, perverse lifestyles. that is the most cruel judgment that a judge could ever sentence a baby to..
    A life sentence into that life style. Like the baby is a criminal and is sentenced to a lifetime of misery.. What a horrid unforgivable act.
    These judges with gay & lesbian sympathies should be prosecuted for these in-humane actions, in fact criminal actions.

    Dammit to hell people wake up!.. Someone! Anyone! Please, reading this use your know how & begin saving the children.
    Whats the matter with you?
    You've known of this.. before you ever read this.. So what is truly wrong.. do you hate children so much that you would stand by and do nothing?

    It is said that when the good men & women of a failing country stand by and do nothing about the evil: invading it from within.. then we are a doomed country. I don't know where this exact quote came from though isn't it true?

    Do not let the children be abused & pied piper ed any longer.. by the lets play house people who are lonely & feel abused, misused, misunderstood & want to raise a baby like a married family & couple.
    The experiment family & the cost of a baby's life is a stake.

    You have to know what is right and what is wrong, you were raised by knowing people, you know the rights of others are to be respected, take the bull by the horns here and give your support to those who have no w2ay to voice their concerns which in this case is their life.
    The babies need your help & support to protect them. Don't listen to me listen to the babies desperate cries, they don't even know what their crying for yet.. but they will..

14. Paen Says:
    Mar 2nd, 2009 at 3:25pm

    Yes children do need to be protected but it's not from the gays that they need protection the most but rather the straight men who make up the majority of abusers.Furthermore they also need protection from having their minda warped by ignorant bigots thus perpetuating gay bashing and other injustices enflicted on the Gay and Lesbian community.
    Btw Jimorike try listening to the cries
    of the people being hurt because of hate propaganda like yours and the sick mentalities of folks who think that teaching children that hate is wrong is too much.

15. TORTURE VICTIMS Says:
    Mar 3rd, 2009 at 3:09am

    To:
    jyoo@law.berkeley.edu

    Dear Attorney John Yoo,
    I just want you to know your decision to play God destroyed my life and the lives of my children. I can only pray what was done to me and my children is never done to you or those you love.
    I did what any decent human being would do that had a shred of decency and a conscience to protect our President, our Country, and its Citizens/Innocent people in general...I saw and uncovered evil and I reported it. Instead of thanks, I and my children were tortured in the most heinous ways imaginable. Later a corrupt attorney, made it known to me in a cute way, with the help of a complicit system, that a person that was convicted of numerous felonies (against me and my children) was helped by the CIA as pay back against me for putting him in jail. It finally came to light that the illegal, criminal defense program used on me was an expansion/extension of the allegedly banned MARIONETTE Program/MONARCH Program/MKULTRA which targets children when they are very young, hijacking their lives, using, abusing, programming, manipulating, mutilating and TORTURING them in order to use them for intelligence/political/monetary and sadistic amusement agenda's. These programs amount to government sanctioned Underground Slavery, enforced by a gestapo style shadow government that uses mobster tactics to keep the victims controlled and compliant...which makes this country, everthing it stands for, and everything so many brave souls lost life and limb over, nothing but a LIE. Seeing you are an Attorney, Officer of the Legal System and are suppose to conform to the Canon of Ethics, which includes having a SPECIAL responsibility for the quality of Justice, maybe a complaint to the Board of Bar Overseers would be in order regarding the LIVING HELL you and other monsters put me and my children through. Since when does someone have their life made into a living hell for calling in evidence of massive insider trading linked to orchestrated terrorist attacks/disasters via corrupt media elements and illegal defense programs. The aforementioned incorporating TYRANNY and TREASON against the American People. I was subjected to orchestrated car "accidents", directed energy weaponry, microwave weaponry, biochemical weaponry, nano?, (directed energy also used on my child where both of us were overheard on the telephone, including my calling the police, begging, crying and pleading to stop the heinous torture), attacks on my child, sexual assault, deprivation of rights in various areas, constant harassment and threats (D4 tactics, deny, discredit, disable, destroy) which resulted in us suffering physically, emotionally, physically and spiriturally while BILLIONS were made via the suffering of the innocent. Evidence of the aforementioned was sent via CRR, FAX, email, telephone to WH Pres. Bush, CIA Dir. Goss, CIA Dir. Hayden, DoD Inspector GeneraI, NSA Inspector General, JCS Army Schoomaker, JCS AF Moseley, JCS Navy Mullen, JCS England, FBI Civil Rights Dept in DC, Senate Intel Committee Sen. Feinstein and Rockefeller, House Judiciary Committee, Sen. Shelby, Sen. Edwards, Sen. McCain, Sen. Obama, just to name a few with NO RESPONSE except for numerous abrupt firings every time. The House Judiciary Committee said to me "You may not have received the response you wanted, but your sure have gotten a response." I will not rest until long awaited Justice is achieved and the monsters responsible are held criminally and civilly responsible. I can only pity you on Judgement Day.

    http://www.mass.gov/obcbbo/disciplinaryrules.pdf

    ht tp://web.elastic.org/~fche/mirrors/cryptome.org/af050302.txt

    ht tp://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=MKULTRA&src=IE-SearchBox

    < p>http://search.live.com/results.aspx?q=Human+Subject+Experimentation& amp;src=IE-SearchBox

    http://www.libertyforum.org till 9-3-08 under ManhattanPROJECT

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090303/ap_on_go_c a_st_pe/terror_memos

    From the CIA website:
    "A covert action may not violate the Constitution or any U.S. law."
    "To ensure that the CIA meets these various responsibilities in a proper manner, the agency has an inspector general, who audits its secret accounts and investigates malpractice. In an attempt to limit the responsibilities and therefore the power of the director of central intelligence, Congress provided in 1947 that the CIA should not collect intelligence in the United States. The CIA only monitors the domestic activities of U.S. citizens when it believes they may be involved in espionage or international terrorist activities. Since then, Congress has periodically investigated the agency. In the mid-1970s, both the U.S. House of Representatives and the Senate set up permanent committees to oversee the CIA, and these committees have established procedures for the monitoring of covert operations."

    FOR THE RECORD: I spent hundreds of dollars sending information of a suspicious nature/potential threats as noted above in addition to expending an enormous amount of time and effort, and received the aforementioned treatment which would lend one to wonder WHO ARE THE REAL TERRORISTS?

    So now what an AMBUSH of the victims to add final insult to injury? Good luck torturing and killing all of us.

16. TORTURE VICTIMS Says:
    Mar 3rd, 2009 at 5:17pm

    Addendum:

    Correction: Above excerpt regarding CIA from http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia with link to CIA web site.

17. EverydayGoddess Says:
    Mar 4th, 2009 at 12:42pm

    I like the Tell 3 idea. The more individuals know about an issue, the smarter they are about it. The saying "A group of people is stupid but a single person is smart." can mean a lot in a situation like this. I'm sure most of the people spewing out the hate here have gay friends and they don't even know it! What would you do if a person you've known for a long time suddenly came to you and told you they were gay? Would you hate them, even though you knew the person themselves? Being gay is not wrong, just like being straight isn't wrong either.

    I don't think kids should be taught about gay people like it's something in school, but rather they should be aware of gay people. Like, they should just know gay people do exist and that it's not a bad thing to have a gay friend. You aren't looking for a friend based on sexuality, but rather personality and common interests.

    Someone said "stay in your own home, shut up, and etc,". Well I'm not going to stay in my home and shut up. I'm going to go out in the world and be who God made me, gay and proud of it. Maybe the haters should stay in their homes and shut up, because no one wants to hear those vile words.

    Thanks,
    EverydayGoddess

18. Tyson Boyer Says:
    Mar 5th, 2009 at 2:12am

    Friends, enemies and everyone else. The hate that is being spewed out on this page is a step in the wrong direction. The great thing about civil liberties is that we have the right to disagree as civil beings. As respectable people, as I'm sure many of you are, ask yourself what really are you accomplishing? Is it the need to be right? Hitler had that need, so did Osama bin Laden, and Stalin. Historical figures that have made the biggest lasting difference in our societies, spoke messages of love, tolerance, acceptance, charity and brother/sisterhood. It is ok for you to believe that marriage is between a man and a women. Furthermore it is your right, so to is it your right to believe in which ever God that suits you. Freedom is something we must all fight for, no matter what you believe. As human beings we should not be so worried about who loves who, rather we should be concerned greatly about hate. Hate is the beginning to the end of all civilizations. It is the start of all wars, it is the reason Christ, Martin Luther King, and Harvey Milk were killed, as well as many others who were never given the chance to change the world. The reality is we are in this together. If your civil or human liberties are taken away, would you fight to have them restored? As consenting adults, we all get the right to make choices on how we live our lives. Living in a "free" society should put us on a level playing field of equal rights. We've come so far, why go backwards, why hate? I hope that people on both sides of this issue will attempt to agree to disagree. When you choose to express your anger and prejudice, you are making a clear choice to spread evil and hatred. For once consider the idea that we are in this together, and with courage, love and hope we can live side by side with our differences and freedoms in tact. Or don't, then you can pat yourself on the back when you die for all the hate you spread. For being right, and most of all for standing up for intolerance, imprisonment, shame, and indifference to your fellow man and woman. It's your choice.....

19. LiberalLover Says:
    Mar 5th, 2009 at 2:32am

    Liberal Hater, it is funny when people compare being gay to pedophilia and beastialty because it shows who the real crazy people are.

    and I don't think it is very Christian to tell other people to die unless you are from the church of the Ku Klux Klan

20. YesWay Says:
    Mar 5th, 2009 at 2:36am

    No way, you say this "choice" is not natural, but in fact it is not a choice. It is biological to have the sexual orientation you do and if it were a choice then it would take a lot of courage to turn gay and face the unjust discrimination.

    And yes roosters can't lay eggs. A man and a woman do make a kid, and sometimes their kids are gay. That is where gay people come from, not some pile of dirt or your mom's ribcage. But sometimes a paralyzed man and a woman can't have kids either. SHould they not be allowed to marry?

21. PointTaken? Says:
    Mar 5th, 2009 at 5:21pm

    For all the people who believe in christ:

    Bottom line is, Jesus spread a message of love to the world.

    Another point you should take to heart: when you know something is going to hurt another human being, your supposed to SHUT THE FUCK UP.

22. jlm Says:
    Mar 6th, 2009 at 12:23am

    "It is the start of all wars, it is the reason Christ, Martin Luther King, and Harvey Milk were killed, as well as many others who were never given the chance to change the world."

    I would not be so bold as to lump the Lord Jesus Christ with Martin Luther King and Harvey Milk. There is one big difference between the Lord Jesus and the other two men. Jesus is the second person of the Holy Trinity, the Son of God, the incarnate Word who bore the wrath of God at His crucifixion so that those who believe in Him shall not suffer the wrath of God at the final judgment. For those who are dealing with the sin of homosexuality, they can find comfort in Christ and through the Holy Spirit they will be able to repent of their sin by turning away from their lifestyle. This is my prayer to the gay community.

23. Tyson Boyer Says:
    Mar 9th, 2009 at 9:57am

    Christ has never been quoted refering to homosexuality as a sin. In the Old Testament Hetrosexuals who committed adultery were to be put to death. In Christ the OLD laws of the old testament were to be done away with. The only maker a person has to answer to is themselves. NO ONE should have to repent for loving another person in an unconditional manner. The same way your Christ asked them to. What a person does in the bedroom is no one else's business but their own. Since you are not Christ and you don't know his will in this matter, I suggest you leave the judgement up to him. Unless you and your friends are willing to cast the first stone of judgement, because you yourselves have no sin. Then I would suggest you re-read the testament of your Christ and study his words on love, forgiveness and brotherhood.

24. Li Says:
    Aug 13th, 2009 at 12:37pm

    Wow, don't we have enough hate in this world already. I am a Christian and I have been a reverend for almost 30 yrs andI don't hate gays or what ever they call themselves. I also don't believe God wants anyone to be gay or trans or lesbians, or any of that simply because HIS own words say that He hates that life style and HE also says hate the sin not the sinner. So according to GOD's own word this type of lifestyle is a SIN and that it's not God's will for any one to be anything other than straight men and women and GOD'S word also states that marriage is between one man and one woman! Now I am sorry for any one who has been abused in any way shape or form but it is infact a choice to life your own sexualty what ever it is. Since God states all of the above. God also says to go forth and multiply and for 1 man and 1 woman to marry. It's all thru out scriptures if only people would read it who say they are gay, les, whatever, no one can call themselves godly or Christian and believe that being anything other than straight and marriage is for one man and one woman. If anyone not straight wants to really know what God says pick up a bible and read it. It is there in black and white and red!

    I also want to tell you there are so many people who I've prayed with over their situation of being other than straight and showed them that God loves them but hates that particular life style and each one of them had been abused by the other gender so they thought it would work becoming other that straight and I can promise you after they prayed and allowed God back into their lives and studied scriptures for themselves they went back to being straigt and are out there speaking on their lifestyle and how they chose to be gay until they saw the light and truth of God and became set free!! So for those of you who tell those of us that we are hiden gays because we are so against it is so ridiculous. Now I understand some people can get a little heated up and angry but it's understandable when you know the truth and ignorance tries to tell you that you are something you are not!! That is just a crazy come back because doing battle with an unarmed person is just insane! Ignorance is so not bliss it's stupid. For those of you who are against the lifestyles other than straight please don't let anyone get under your skin but do lots of prayers for these ignorant people and for our coutnry that seems to be losing their intelligence and become very unarmed and ignorant! The battle is the Lords and the devil gets people who are not staying into the word as you already know. Say your peace Christians but say it in a loving way and never let them get under your skin! God bless all people! Blessings and peace to all!
    Rev. Li :)

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